Yamaha CDX-10000 Schematic, etc.

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dzungtle

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Joined 2008
#1
Hi,

Does anyone have the service manual and/or schematic diagrams for this Yamaha CD player?

I am working on in for a friend of mine, and its digital co-axial output does not work.

I am gonna look at it later on today in more details. However, any documentation would help rather than tracing the PCBs.

Regards.
 
#2
CDX-10000? Really? Not CDX-1000? The 10000 is rare as anything. That generation, either model, is pretty darn certain to you a YM3613 chip to create the digital output signal. So, if it's not a simple soldering issue, bad resistor or cap, then look to that chip, although I can say I have never seen one go bad.
 
#3
Hi,

Yes, it is the CDX-10000.

I have one myself and 3 MX-10000's! 🙂 Fortunately, my CD player is in better shape and digital coax output works...

On this faulty unit, I suspect that something between the output of the YM3613 to the output transformer.

However - like you mentioned of the rarity, I'd rather have a look at the schematic before mucking around and messing up other things!

Removing the top covers - I did look at it from the top down, and the digital board is underneath the transport. Thus, I feel uneasy about pulling the whole thing out to get access to the PCB.

Also did look at it from the bottom side, possible extraction there but still a few cables, etc. that need to be managed carefully.

Kinda busy with work and other projects this week and next... So, I am just lettin' it simmer for a week or two... Maybe, I'll come up with better ideas or some more courage! Definitely, the latter... 🙂

Regards.
 
#5
Hello,

OK. I will be glad to snap some shots as I work on the unit.

I didn't have a close-up lens on my camera, but recently got a 1:1 close-up piece of glass for the small detailed shots. So, I am happy to try it out on the CDX-10000! 🙂

Here are some shots of a MX-10000 that needed a little bit of cosmetic works, and I also managed to punch a hole in the rear panel for the IEC conversion.

http://share.shutterfly.com/action/...C6g&emid=sharshar&linkid=link5&cid=EMsharshar

Enjoy... 🙂

Regards.
 
#6
Hi Stephen,

Is the "test jig" w/ built-in filters necessary to check/adjust the servo/track/gain, etc.?

Most units I worked on didn't need one, but some Yamaha's SMs appear to use one with the YEDS-18 disc, shorting cord, etc.

Thank you.
 
#8
UPDATE: OK, problem solved!!!

Was just faulty external cabling issue.

Simple & trivial solution, and I managed to squeeze myself out of a serious disassembly kjob of my friend's CDX-10000 and a chance to work on one of these machines... Next time, baby!!!

Read on if you are interested in the whole story.

--------------------------------------------

Couple of background details... 🙂

1. I don't believe in using RCA-terminated digital cables or RCA-interface for digital co-axial outputs.

2. I don't use Toslink interface, either.

So, I converted all my CD players/tranports co-axial outputs to use BNC terminations & true 75-Ohm cables. Same on my DACs.

However, I didn't get around to convert my CDX-10000. Plus, I plug it directly into one of my MX-10000s and use the on-board volume control for the analog outputs.

So, all of my digital co-axial cables are home-made, and I don't have any BNC-RCA adapters either - since I figured I'd never need them...

So when my friend dropped off his "faulty" CDX-10000, he also left me with his "super" expensive & directional RCA digital cable for me to check the problem out along with his player.

Let's just say that the cable is a brand-name one that costs more than my Yamaha CDX-10000 & Sony CDP-X707ES players, plus some cash!

Anyway, I decided to work on the unit after a quick dinner today...

Using his machine & cable, I wasn't able to make the digital output working. The same thing as he described. One thing I noticed that his RCA connector on the player is very snug, and requires a bit of force to insert the cable's male plug.

So, I decided to try the cable's fitting on my CDX-10000. A little easier to fit on my unit, and I was able to verify that there is some voltage at the other end of the cable with my Fluke DVM.

I wished by then that I had some RCA-BNC adapters so that I could hook it up directly to my scope and see if the output waveform is present from the faulty unit...

So, I decided to take a break, and stopped by the office and grabbed some adapters. Then, went for a jog just to "mentally prepare" myself! 🙂

Got home 2 hours later, hooking up the faulty CDX-10000 digital output to the scope and sure enough just a blank screen and no trace.

So, the cable works on my unit but not on the faulty one?

I reluctantly dragged my unit onto the bench and the waveform was nice and clean. Back to the bad unit, no waveforms.... Back to mine, a thing of beauty, back to the bad one, nada...

Alright, time to perform major surgery!!!

Just as I was about to pull the cable from rear panel, I thought I saw a flash of a trace on the screen... Was I dreaming?

Wiggled the cable plug, nothing... Once again, same... Once again, and yes a trace appeared on the screen then flashed away...

One more time, and voila a steady trace on the scope although a little noisy and distorted.

Could it be an intermittent cable connection? Yup, the traces came and went as I wiggled the cable's "machined from a block of solid materials & underwent a proprietary finishing process" RCA plug...

Checked the continuity of the cable did reveal that the "starting" end of the cable has an intermittent connection. This is a supposedly "directional" cable, and I did verify that the "ending" end of the cable seems OK. I don't really buy this "directional" stuff anyway, but whatever. Plus, it is not my cable...

Didn't want to rip open the heat-shrink tubing covering the RCA plug, I don't know for sure where the physical fault is. However, it's up to the owner to take it up with the cable's dealer/manufacturer.

My guess is that since the connector is snug and requires some force to install the plug, the faulty contact appears and gave the impression that the digital output is not working.

I decided on one final test: my home-made BNC cable with BNC-RCA adapters on the "faulty" unit. And voila, waveforms were clean & sharp on the scope and sound was spectacular in my test system.

So, problem solved! Oh wait, there is no problem with the digital output to begin with! 🙂

If only had I stocked some of these adapters at home and used my own trusty but not glamorous cable, I might have solved the mystery much sooner.

So, my friend is picking up his player tomorrow and return my Sony CDP-X707ES and two nice bottles of wine for my compensation! 🙂

Moral of the story:

1. Just because some cable is 4-figure cost, doesn't mean that it is always of good quality.

2. Always have some adapters handy, 'cause one never knows when they could be useful.
 
#10
Hi All,

I managed to pull the unit and take some shots in/out today.

http://share.shutterfly.com/action/welcome?sid=0AYtGrZo3YsmTFMA

1. This is quite a bit bigger than my Sony CDP-X707ES, which is a decent size weight unit. The CDX-10000 is clearly bigger - in all dimensions, and heavier. It is not the heaviest player I have, considering weight/dimensions ratio. But, it is probably the biggest! 🙂

2. The transport mechanism is very big and beefy as well. Certainly on steroid compared to even the X707ES'. However, I feel that the Sony transport is smoother/quieter & steadier as the tray opens and closes. Probably just me, and probably makes no difference in the grand scheme of things.

3. As I took some more internal shots, I noticed that the large electrolytic caps in the analog compartments are all leaky. Check 'em out.

I am glad that I did this, 'cause otherwise I would have kept playing the unit until something bad happens due to shorted cap(s).

So the ultimate questions are:

Q1. Should I replace all the caps? Or, just the leaky ones? Those are the biggest caps on the PCBs anyway. Wonder if there are some correlations between capacitance vs. longevity? The smaller ones look fine...

Q2. I probably need some sort of schematic and/or service manual, just to make sure that I don't mess up such a piece of history. Any takers? 🙂

Regards.
 
#11
Very pretty, and certainly very cool.

That's not leakage, it is glue. It's the nasty tan god-knows-what glue used by many, many manufacturers to prevent wave-soldered components breaking their connections, and it is horrible stuff. Not at first, but after some years, especially when near heat sources(more often the case than not), that stuff darkens, becomes conductive(which ain't good) and then corrosive(which ain't good at all). So, whenever you see it, REMOVE it. A plastic screwdriver(such as a radio tweaking tool) will scrape it off without damaging things, or you can very carefully get it off with a dental pick or scalpel blade. As far as the caps themselves, as many here will not be surprised to see me write, I strongly advise dumping the Rubycon caps & any other brands, to make all the lytics Nichicon or Nippon Chemicon. These are the only brands I've learned, after 30 years service work, can be counted on to virtually never leak or fail. You can count on every single one of the many nice Nichicons I see there to be in perfect health, and to stay that way for decades yet.
I do agree, though, that the X707 has a bit better transport. The transport in the Yamaha is actually a straight up ripoff of the CDP-302/707ESD mech that the X707 is derived from. Not a bad ripoff, but not quite as good.
Thanks for doing the photos. It was a treat.
 
#12
Stephen,

1. Thanks for the helpful information.

My guess is that they put the glue on the big stuff, since they probably have large leads and would need more heat for the solder to flow and set properly. From what I understand - on these single-layer PCBs, too much heat can probably cause de-lamination of the traces.

Also, I think that their other reason to put the glue is to provide additional mechanical restraint/enforcement - since these larger caps can potentially move (during shipping/transport for instance) and either detach themselves from the PCB and/or cause PCB damages.

I had instances of big caps broke off from their terminals, from two Legacy's MonoBloc power amps. 3 out of the 4 caps in each amp snapped off from the power supply board. What amazed me is such a vendor like Legacy (Coda) did such a poor job at mechanical design. They sounded like crap, too. Luckily, the shipping insurance covered the whole thing, and I repaired the amps with the new caps. They could never match the sound quality of my amps... Anyway, now I remember why glues and/or mounting brackets exist... 🙂

2. Ah yes, I do have one of those alignment too kits. Don't use them too often these days, but looks like they become useful again! 🙂

3. Interesting comments on the fancy caps, and I am not surprised! Stuff makes sense when it's right. No rush in pulling the caps, but I'll look at my stock to see what I have to replace them with. I actually didn't pay much attention to them - other than the fact that they look fine and appear to be the "fancy" stuff! 🙂

Being an RF IC designer by day, I am used to having TWO kinds of caps to use on chip. Non-linear caps with high cap density, or linear cap with low cap density. That's it! Same deal with resistors. Inductors, that's another story.

Hardware designers have it really good! Tens of styles of components to choose from...

Regards.
 
#14
The Rubycon caps visible in the photos are high grade & not as likely to fail as their lower line, but I would still replace them with Nichicon KG, KW, FG, FW or KZ grade at some point within the next few years, for the sake of longevity. But, if there are ANY Panasonic/Matsushita or Elna, I would replace them immediately! No matter how good they look, at that age, I can promise you'll find most of them starting to leak corrosive electrolyte once you remove them. So, before they start damaging the traces on the boards of this classic, if there are any of those in there, get rid of them. I don't recall Yamaha using Elna at this time period, but I would be surprised if you don't find more than a few Panasonics(as a brand, the MOST guaranteed to leak caps in the world, next to Elna's Duorex line).

And, of course, all of this advice applies equally to any other 10000 pieces you have, or any gear at all.
 
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