Thanks for the schematic Waxx, and thank your friend too. Looks very promising with 18dB slopes on tweeter and mids etc. Any chance of posting his FRD and ZMA files for this also?
For example, look at the region between 2 and 5kHz. The red and blue phase traces are near each other when both are using the same polarity. It doesn't matter which polarity for those two, as long as they are the same. When they are different, phase is 180 degrees apart which means cancellation.
The woofer and mid are only in phase when they have opposite polarity.
The woofer and mid are only in phase when they have opposite polarity.
This is done long ago, i don't have them anymore and i don't think the owner (in his mid 80's) still has them. The owner moved to a nursery home recently and got rid of most of his possessions (not his hifi system). I asked him also for pictures (that i know he had), but he says the specs sheets were the only thing he could find back, and that picture of the layout, he did delete the rest as he don't need that anymore at his age he said.
I see. Any idea what caused this to be the case with my sim whereas on the factory crossover the mid and tweeter are shown as opposite phase?
Waxx, thats fair enough, I understand.
Thanks AllenB. As far as the delay goes, I've worked out the acoustic centres of the drivers so do I code them relative to the midrange ie tweeter + 1.772" to equal the midrange, and woofer - (minus) 0.669" to equal the midrange? Jeff Bagby says the acoustic centre of a dome tweeter is "the ring near the base of the dome" or basically the face plate. Is this generally accepted?
Best is to measure with timing. This way you don’t enter any number as it’s all included in the measurement. Anything else would be an estimation.. and when there are other issues causing deviations so that you can’t try to fit your model, it could become a guess.
However if you have numbers, some programmes use positive and some use negative. Look at it while you shift it. Phase moving down the plot at the higher frequencies means it’s moving away from you.
However if you have numbers, some programmes use positive and some use negative. Look at it while you shift it. Phase moving down the plot at the higher frequencies means it’s moving away from you.
Hi am I ok to jump into this thread or should i start a new one?
I am in a similar situation and i am brand new to this, i have only just started playing with Crossover sim software any pointers would be appreciated. I have some Kef Concertos Sp1004's as well and i've replaced the crossover caps and they sound ok maybe a little bit brighter than the original but i have also got hold of another set of DN12's i would like to experiment with. i've been playing with the simulations on here and looking at the spec sheets of the three drivers T27,B110 and B139. can someone have a look at this sim and tell me if it looks ok or am i miles away with the frequency response and the schematic? I basically have tried to get the crossover points of the speakers at the frequencies recommended in the data sheets. I was ok following until there was talk about phase of the speakers changing the FR. I was also confused why the T27 had the phase inverted compared to the original Xover diagram schematic and not sure why they did that. In my sim i inverted the phase in the woofer instead and changed a few values around. Thank you for your consideration.
Regards
Chris.
I am in a similar situation and i am brand new to this, i have only just started playing with Crossover sim software any pointers would be appreciated. I have some Kef Concertos Sp1004's as well and i've replaced the crossover caps and they sound ok maybe a little bit brighter than the original but i have also got hold of another set of DN12's i would like to experiment with. i've been playing with the simulations on here and looking at the spec sheets of the three drivers T27,B110 and B139. can someone have a look at this sim and tell me if it looks ok or am i miles away with the frequency response and the schematic? I basically have tried to get the crossover points of the speakers at the frequencies recommended in the data sheets. I was ok following until there was talk about phase of the speakers changing the FR. I was also confused why the T27 had the phase inverted compared to the original Xover diagram schematic and not sure why they did that. In my sim i inverted the phase in the woofer instead and changed a few values around. Thank you for your consideration.
Regards
Chris.
Attachments
What are you doing, modelling the old crossover or making a new one, and what is your purpose?
You say the change in capacitor makes it bright, try increasing the series resistance to compensate your change from the original.
You mention phase but you need to enable it - https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/xsim-configuring-the-plot-window.406106/
You say the change in capacitor makes it bright, try increasing the series resistance to compensate your change from the original.
You mention phase but you need to enable it - https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/xsim-configuring-the-plot-window.406106/
i have two spare DN12 crossovers and looking to experiment with but before buying any components i was having a play with the sim software. I've used the concerto complete crossover file from on here to start with. The crossovers in my speakers have just had the caps replaced with new ones according to the original schematic. The spare crossovers i have i just want to play with and see if i can improve the sound if possible. They speakers don't sound bad but ppl have upgraded the crossovers and thought i would give it a go as well.
If you're new to this you might find there is a fine line between crossing and voicing. It's difficult to equalise by changing crossover components without changing the blend between the two as well, unless you know what you're doing.
This leaves the question of which it is you want to change. Perhaps you could mess around with an equaliser first. This will serve to teach you what remains as an acoustic issue since you'll have difficulty equalising those.
This leaves the question of which it is you want to change. Perhaps you could mess around with an equaliser first. This will serve to teach you what remains as an acoustic issue since you'll have difficulty equalising those.