Not always, see this from that page:
"Vishay MKP1837 (a.k.a. ERO MKP1830) 0,01uF MKP 100VDC – 1% tolerance - Verdict: Can’t live without them! – Use them as bypass cap with any capacitor, they cost practically nothing!"
*shrug*
Can't disagree with you, but when you go through all of the capacitors that Tony Gee tested, which I have before but do not want to repeat now, you'll find that most of the time he gave higher ratings to the (much?) more expensive caps. While there will be some benefit in some way(s) when something you buy costs more than other similar items, that is not an absolute or a guarantee of superiority, and especially not so for far too many audio products and components claimed to be better and costing a bunch more. Does a Rolex watch keep time appreciably better than a Wenger Swiss Army watch? Don't think so, but the Rolex sure does cost a lot more, allowing its owner to brag and flaunt his resources.
Paul
Paul
IIRC, the Vishay was added after I wrote my paper. You'll note also, in the paper, there were two outliers related to VDC ratings. Overall, as DrDyna point out, most of the 50+ samples Tony tested did correlate reasonably well.
I suspect if you went thru the trouble of correlating VDC ratings with cost, R squared would also be quite significant.
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I can hear and measure the additional harmonic distortion of an electrolytic over a film. I can't measure the differences in films and have not yet built a speaker that is good enough by itself to hear differences in films. If others can, great. Maybe I'll get there. If I have the cap specs, I will pick the lower DF and ESR, but only if the cost delta is not too much. Not suggesting there are not differences, just that I have bigger problems to fix first.
Have you read the Clarity Cap AES paper? Your findings are similar to theirs. They found an untrained panel of listeners could differentiate NPE's from film caps. However, when they started comparing their MR film to orther film, they ended up resorting to a trained panel of golden ears and utilized a standard testing protocol. I feel the reasons are obvious; differences between like caps are very subtle.
Upon reflection, I suspect Tony Gee refused to do a blind test with like uF value caps from the same manufacturer but with 3 levels VDC ratings, because the outcome might not have been consistent with his prior cap evaluations.
Unfortunately, I am too cheap to subscribe to AES, only having their four anthologies on speakers. They predate Clarity. My opinion would be that their differences are so small compared to the distortion in the rest of the chain, the care in generating the source recordings and playback up to the point the cap is substituted overshadow the cap differences. What kind of cap was in the mic? As we know, looking for a .0001% difference under 10% noise usually unfruitful.
It would be interesting if a system was clean enough source to ear, to see if VDC in film has as large an effect as it does in electrolytics. A lab can measure the DF change, but how does that relate to audible distortion?
On the other hand, if one believes one is "vastly better you tin ear heathens" and it makes them happy, there is no harm done. DIY has that advantage. I come from the "If I hear a difference, I want to be able to measure it, but If I can't hear a difference, I do what is easiest" engineering camp. Don't gold plate the requirements.
It would be interesting if a system was clean enough source to ear, to see if VDC in film has as large an effect as it does in electrolytics. A lab can measure the DF change, but how does that relate to audible distortion?
On the other hand, if one believes one is "vastly better you tin ear heathens" and it makes them happy, there is no harm done. DIY has that advantage. I come from the "If I hear a difference, I want to be able to measure it, but If I can't hear a difference, I do what is easiest" engineering camp. Don't gold plate the requirements.
Watch this video. It's basically a verbal explanation of the AES paper. I'll send more info on the paper.
AES08: If the Cap Fits â?? It Must Sound Better, Clarity Caps -?? precision audio capacitors (Video) -Sonicstate.com
PM me and I'll send you two of CC's white papers.
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Midrange crossover.
A few Mundorf Supreme plus a Mundorf Silver and oil bypass added to the stack.
Tweeter
Mundorf Supreme with Dueland resistors
woofer
12G foil with Mundorf Mcap with Z for the shunt cap
Same crossover parts used in these
In my Theater room.
Mundorf supreme with silver and oil is a mix, I tell you..
A few Mundorf Supreme plus a Mundorf Silver and oil bypass added to the stack.
Tweeter
Mundorf Supreme with Dueland resistors
woofer
12G foil with Mundorf Mcap with Z for the shunt cap
Same crossover parts used in these
In my Theater room.
Mundorf supreme with silver and oil is a mix, I tell you..
Well, he makes it clear this is talking very high end. I don't see a reason to run, not walk to the nearest exit. I don't doubt the phenomena he is talking about, but now this is a target, is it measurable with traditional distortion analyzers or CSD?
Oh boy- that got pretty far out of hand...
Anyway- I'll post my findings...
FWIW- these were all on the Attitudes project of mine. RSS210HF-4/Usher 9845/RT1C-A. With the exception of the Silver Z-Caps, and a 20uF Clarity SA, all of mine were under $25 each.
NPE's tend to have a touch of a 'megaphone' effect on mid and tweeters, and yield a looser bass damping on woofers, possibly due to ESR.
I like Solens across woofers. They have this seemingly better damping effect, and bass is a bit tighter or more controlled.
IME, Erse are likely the best cheap cap I've used. Better than the Dayton, and sometimes cheaper too! They also come in a very small package compared to other types.
I like pretty much all of the Jantzen products, except I've not used the Gold model. I will use CrossCaps over Dayton/Solen in series with M/T drivers, and they were better than NPE's on woofers. The Standard-Z I feel are a bit 'reserved' in openness, but are pleasantly detailed, and not too expensive. The Silver and Superior are both wonderful- nice and open, very transparent and good detail.
Sonicaps tend to be a bit bright, and a touch sssibilant to me. I can see a dull tweeter using them to be a plus, but I think they cost a bit much for the yield. By comparison, the MultiCap PPMFX is MUCH better for a tad more money.
Clarity SA are a good benchmark; even if they have a slightly closed in sound- there is a good amount of detail. Conversely, the ASC in Oils are very spacious, and smooth over a bit of the detail. These 2 to me are on par with each other, but for different reasons.
WIMAs are very nice for the cost.
I've used and like ZenCaps, but I don't know where they sit pricewise. They fill the need, and sound transparent enough. I have a pair of Crescendo 1uF caps (used) and everything I've used them on bypass or otherwise gets worse. I don't know if they are internally damaged somehow, but that is indeed possible.
As for some bypassing, I've actually heard one source of info become 2, and get all smeary. I suppose this is not true in all cases, but it has happened for me. I cannot hear the addition or bypassing of a 0.01uF value or smaller- I see no merit there.
I actually had a tweeter coil with higher DCR compared to the same inductance value and an added resistor to make the same value set- and the resistor-added version actually sounded better to me.
I like the Arcol/Dale panel-mount resistors if I can afford them, but it's mostly looks and the heatsink cases. I don't believe I can hear any differences in resistors thus far.
Later,
Wolf
Anyway- I'll post my findings...
FWIW- these were all on the Attitudes project of mine. RSS210HF-4/Usher 9845/RT1C-A. With the exception of the Silver Z-Caps, and a 20uF Clarity SA, all of mine were under $25 each.
NPE's tend to have a touch of a 'megaphone' effect on mid and tweeters, and yield a looser bass damping on woofers, possibly due to ESR.
I like Solens across woofers. They have this seemingly better damping effect, and bass is a bit tighter or more controlled.
IME, Erse are likely the best cheap cap I've used. Better than the Dayton, and sometimes cheaper too! They also come in a very small package compared to other types.
I like pretty much all of the Jantzen products, except I've not used the Gold model. I will use CrossCaps over Dayton/Solen in series with M/T drivers, and they were better than NPE's on woofers. The Standard-Z I feel are a bit 'reserved' in openness, but are pleasantly detailed, and not too expensive. The Silver and Superior are both wonderful- nice and open, very transparent and good detail.
Sonicaps tend to be a bit bright, and a touch sssibilant to me. I can see a dull tweeter using them to be a plus, but I think they cost a bit much for the yield. By comparison, the MultiCap PPMFX is MUCH better for a tad more money.
Clarity SA are a good benchmark; even if they have a slightly closed in sound- there is a good amount of detail. Conversely, the ASC in Oils are very spacious, and smooth over a bit of the detail. These 2 to me are on par with each other, but for different reasons.
WIMAs are very nice for the cost.
I've used and like ZenCaps, but I don't know where they sit pricewise. They fill the need, and sound transparent enough. I have a pair of Crescendo 1uF caps (used) and everything I've used them on bypass or otherwise gets worse. I don't know if they are internally damaged somehow, but that is indeed possible.
As for some bypassing, I've actually heard one source of info become 2, and get all smeary. I suppose this is not true in all cases, but it has happened for me. I cannot hear the addition or bypassing of a 0.01uF value or smaller- I see no merit there.
I actually had a tweeter coil with higher DCR compared to the same inductance value and an added resistor to make the same value set- and the resistor-added version actually sounded better to me.
I like the Arcol/Dale panel-mount resistors if I can afford them, but it's mostly looks and the heatsink cases. I don't believe I can hear any differences in resistors thus far.
Later,
Wolf
Solen vs Jantzen , similar prices , thoughts anyone ...? OK , I see where Wolfy has commented on such ... - Status
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