That is exactly what I mean. How can an additional PCI card (presumably VGA adapter) help with the OS not dealing with the graphics output?
I know cplay is a windows project, but still I do not see the connection.
In linux just disabling the framebuffer as kernel param at boot (i.e. using the vga standard) and using only console interface should avoid any graphics rendered by CPU in your project, or do I understand it incorrectly? Apart of the zero extra CPU load required for rendering the little graphics a TUI could use.
I know cplay is a windows project, but still I do not see the connection.
In linux just disabling the framebuffer as kernel param at boot (i.e. using the vga standard) and using only console interface should avoid any graphics rendered by CPU in your project, or do I understand it incorrectly? Apart of the zero extra CPU load required for rendering the little graphics a TUI could use.
You are correct. Using an additional PCI graphics card will not make a difference here.
Your understanding of VGA console is also correct. OS does not do the rendering here - the VGA compatible graphics adapter does it.
I should clarify that this also includes TUI. Anything that you see on the screen in VGA console is rendered by the VGA adapter, including the cursor. In certain simplification, the OS's role boils down to telling the VGA adapter "go to this line/column and render this text".
Your understanding of VGA console is also correct. OS does not do the rendering here - the VGA compatible graphics adapter does it.
I should clarify that this also includes TUI. Anything that you see on the screen in VGA console is rendered by the VGA adapter, including the cursor. In certain simplification, the OS's role boils down to telling the VGA adapter "go to this line/column and render this text".
Last edited:
Thanks, frd, for entertaining our notion.
I was listening to the core2 variant last night instead of i3. I have come to no conclusions but was wondering what is the essential difference between the two versions?
The motherboard I am using has the two core CPU soldered in - is the main difference support for more cores?
Would there be any inherent sonic advantage to either one or is it a matter of whether it works or not and then personal taste following that?
Should we investigate these NVMe drives? Are you using them? I must admit I know nothing about them.
So would their path be more akin to USB or SATA? I would like to leave SATA off in BIOS and I know I could power PCIe devices externally with an adapter. I prefer minimizing power from the ATX supply.
Sorry for all of the questions.
Take care,
I was listening to the core2 variant last night instead of i3. I have come to no conclusions but was wondering what is the essential difference between the two versions?
The motherboard I am using has the two core CPU soldered in - is the main difference support for more cores?
Would there be any inherent sonic advantage to either one or is it a matter of whether it works or not and then personal taste following that?
Should we investigate these NVMe drives? Are you using them? I must admit I know nothing about them.
So would their path be more akin to USB or SATA? I would like to leave SATA off in BIOS and I know I could power PCIe devices externally with an adapter. I prefer minimizing power from the ATX supply.
Sorry for all of the questions.
Take care,
Rick,
As you may know x86 (PC) CPUs are generally compatible with each other. That is, you can run a generic x86 executable code on any of the compatible processors. That is why, for example, the code built 20 years ago can still run fine on modern CPUs.
Compatibility does not mean that CPUs are identical. Although the modern CPUs are compatible on the surface, they often are very different from each other in the inside (keyword: micro-architecture).
A code compiler can generate a generic executable code that can run on any x86 CPU, but if the compiler is aware of the internal architecture of certain family CPUs, then it can generate an executable code that will run more efficiently on those CPUs. The risk is, however, that such optimized code, may be much less efficient on a different CPU family. In fact, it may not run correctly or may not run at all.
Please keep in mind, that micro-architecture may not be directly related to the number of cores in a CPU.
When making wtfplay-live I had to make a decision whether to build a generic x86 code or the optimized one for certain CPU families. I chose to build the optimized code.
The oldest CPU family that I decided to optimize for is Intel Core 2 Duo. This CPU appeared around 2007. I assumed that there is no point to created images optimized for older CPUs as there would not be many of them around anyway.
In terms, which image to choose, the answer is simple: pick the one that runs on your CPU and matches your preferences. There is no right and wrong here.
In terms of NVMe drives, they plug directly into PCI bus, so you skip SATA/USB controller. Typically they use M.2 connector. I hven't came across any M.2 to PCIe adapter that supports external power. Typically they are bus powered.
Footnote, please excuse me if there are some over-simplifications in this post. I avoided going into details for the general clarity.
F
As you may know x86 (PC) CPUs are generally compatible with each other. That is, you can run a generic x86 executable code on any of the compatible processors. That is why, for example, the code built 20 years ago can still run fine on modern CPUs.
Compatibility does not mean that CPUs are identical. Although the modern CPUs are compatible on the surface, they often are very different from each other in the inside (keyword: micro-architecture).
A code compiler can generate a generic executable code that can run on any x86 CPU, but if the compiler is aware of the internal architecture of certain family CPUs, then it can generate an executable code that will run more efficiently on those CPUs. The risk is, however, that such optimized code, may be much less efficient on a different CPU family. In fact, it may not run correctly or may not run at all.
Please keep in mind, that micro-architecture may not be directly related to the number of cores in a CPU.
When making wtfplay-live I had to make a decision whether to build a generic x86 code or the optimized one for certain CPU families. I chose to build the optimized code.
The oldest CPU family that I decided to optimize for is Intel Core 2 Duo. This CPU appeared around 2007. I assumed that there is no point to created images optimized for older CPUs as there would not be many of them around anyway.
In terms, which image to choose, the answer is simple: pick the one that runs on your CPU and matches your preferences. There is no right and wrong here.
In terms of NVMe drives, they plug directly into PCI bus, so you skip SATA/USB controller. Typically they use M.2 connector. I hven't came across any M.2 to PCIe adapter that supports external power. Typically they are bus powered.
Footnote, please excuse me if there are some over-simplifications in this post. I avoided going into details for the general clarity.
F
Minimizing power from the ATX PSU does not mean lower noise. An NVMe drive consumes single watts, no impact on the PSU. This is plain voodoo, sorry to say that.
How do you know "leaving SATA off" in bios actually shuts down power to the SATA controller? It may just prevent the SATA controller enumeration. How do you boot without SATA drive, do you use USB for everything? How do you know the USB communication does not create more "noise" in your setup than talking to SATA drives, have you analyzed it?
Avoid ground loops and you will be set.
How do you know "leaving SATA off" in bios actually shuts down power to the SATA controller? It may just prevent the SATA controller enumeration. How do you boot without SATA drive, do you use USB for everything? How do you know the USB communication does not create more "noise" in your setup than talking to SATA drives, have you analyzed it?
Avoid ground loops and you will be set.
I will find out tonight if turnng off SATA lowers power consumption.
I now it makes an audible difference if I squeeze my eyes tightly shut.
Wen using a linear supply reducing power consumption becomes important.
If you cannot hear the difference between a top rated ATX supply and a linear powered HDPLEX ATX module then I would have to say you are a lucky man. Will save you lots of trouble.
Every time, in my phantasmagorical experience, I have lowered power consumption I get a quieter presentation. Not hum and obvious noises but what I consider to be digital noise. It makes for a sparkly kind of junk in the background. Some might very well find it agreeable since it adds a sense of excitement. I do not care for it.
There are PCIe adapters that were made for the BITCOIN miners - I have no idea why a BITCOIN miner needs such a thing but they do exist and makes it simple to externally power PCIe. I used to use these for my video PCIe card that no longer works. It died while connected directly to the MB.
Since I am hearing what seems to be very fine sound quality running with USB in and out I surmise that having one clock rate is the key.
I would love to have the storage capacity that the NVMe drives would allow.
So I see PCIe uses a 100mHz clock and USB a 48 mHz clock My instinct is to stick with USB.
So if one is not going to use the NVMe drives is there any reason to use the new version of WTFPLAY?
I now it makes an audible difference if I squeeze my eyes tightly shut.
Wen using a linear supply reducing power consumption becomes important.
If you cannot hear the difference between a top rated ATX supply and a linear powered HDPLEX ATX module then I would have to say you are a lucky man. Will save you lots of trouble.
Every time, in my phantasmagorical experience, I have lowered power consumption I get a quieter presentation. Not hum and obvious noises but what I consider to be digital noise. It makes for a sparkly kind of junk in the background. Some might very well find it agreeable since it adds a sense of excitement. I do not care for it.
There are PCIe adapters that were made for the BITCOIN miners - I have no idea why a BITCOIN miner needs such a thing but they do exist and makes it simple to externally power PCIe. I used to use these for my video PCIe card that no longer works. It died while connected directly to the MB.
Since I am hearing what seems to be very fine sound quality running with USB in and out I surmise that having one clock rate is the key.
I would love to have the storage capacity that the NVMe drives would allow.
So I see PCIe uses a 100mHz clock and USB a 48 mHz clock My instinct is to stick with USB.
So if one is not going to use the NVMe drives is there any reason to use the new version of WTFPLAY?
I have absolutely no hum using an old PC with even older PCI Audiophile 192 soundcard, nonbalanced connection to a class II 30 years old amp (Kenwood KA7010). With the volume at max a noise can be heard only with ear at the speaker. If you can hear noise at increased PC load, you definitely have a ground loop.
Who said anything about hum?
pfofman you have no idea what I am talking about.
Have you ever listened to analogue reproduction of music?
I suspect not since you must not have any sense of the noises digital audio contains.
One would think you would realize that there is more than HUM for noises in audio reproduction?
By your equipment choices is is obvious this is a very casual hobby for you.
In other words - you could be happy with anything yet you think you know all there is to know from your very limited experience.
Unfortunately you are not unique. I would have expected more intellectual curiosity from a Czech.
Not everyone cares about this stuff and that is fine. I am glad you have found something that works for you.
pfofman you have no idea what I am talking about.
Have you ever listened to analogue reproduction of music?
I suspect not since you must not have any sense of the noises digital audio contains.
One would think you would realize that there is more than HUM for noises in audio reproduction?
By your equipment choices is is obvious this is a very casual hobby for you.
In other words - you could be happy with anything yet you think you know all there is to know from your very limited experience.
Unfortunately you are not unique. I would have expected more intellectual curiosity from a Czech.
Not everyone cares about this stuff and that is fine. I am glad you have found something that works for you.
You seem to have very little understanding of how a computer works.
USB devices talk via a USB controller, that is practically always connected to the PCIe bus, even if it's embedded in the chipset. The path for your data is (somewhat simplified):
Flash memory -> USB memory controller -> usb bus -> usb controller -> PCIe bus -> CPU
For a sata SSD:
Flash -> SSD controller -> sata cable-> sata controller -> PCIe bus -> CPU
For NVMe SSD:
Flash -> SSD controller -> PCIe bus -> CPU
The only difference between these that could possibly affect the sound are if some of these devices pollute the power rails when idle.
The noise you are talking about can only come from jitter. Can we please agree that there is no corruption of the data values, meaning that no ones or zeros flip value during transfer? That's a must for any computer to ever work. Jitter is noise in time, and happens on every serial data transfer in smaller or larger quantities. If it's allowed to disturb the clock of the DAC then yes it can be audible. The jitter becomes distorsion and is often described as some kind of grainy noise in the sound.
If there is jitter in the data stream when you copy the files from your hard disk tpo a USB memory, it doesn't matter since the USB memory can't store the jitter.
Have never made a claim I know how a computer works.
All I know is what I have tried.
If I knew everything about how a computer works i would have no need to ask questions would I? My incomplete knowledge is on display without embellishment.
But I do know many things that those who never try anything know.
When I know nothing about something someone suggests I try it before I pontificate on its efficacy.
But then this is a fault of many of us in the United States. We do not know things we do not know unlike so many in Europa.
All I know is what I have tried.
If I knew everything about how a computer works i would have no need to ask questions would I? My incomplete knowledge is on display without embellishment.
But I do know many things that those who never try anything know.
When I know nothing about something someone suggests I try it before I pontificate on its efficacy.
But then this is a fault of many of us in the United States. We do not know things we do not know unlike so many in Europa.
Is something I said being taken as saying there was something WRONG with NVMe? Before yesterday I did not even know what it was.
Other than my concern that it will be more difficult to deal with than the USB stick and SD cards I am using currently which are simple to power externally - but the PCIe adapter will make powering externally possible though more awkward than the USB stuff.
But what confuses me is that I thought you were the person who said storage was storage so what difference do you think I would hear using this storage format versus what I am using?
What is the reason for using NVMe - other than the fact it would be easy to have all of my files in one place, which would be convenient but not of utmost importance to me?
Not being one who is determined to spend money on something I suspect will either sound slightly worse due to the timing discontinuities or the same as I hear from the "storage is storage" folks.
What is your point?
If frd says that he has found this to be the way to go I would try it immediately but to take the advice of someone who as far as I know is not using the player ...
Still do not understand why people who do not currently use and have not ever used this software would even take a look at the posts here. To think that the fellow from Pilsen said he would not waste his time on my response yet the very act of coming to a forum about a device you do not use does speak of a conflicted mind if one is concerned about wasting their time. Looking at any post here would be a waste of time for me if I did not use WTFPLAY.
I have always thought of the Czechs as a particularly intelligent people. I think nationality and intelligence have correlations as do most people living in the real world. Now if we are talking social media silly world then I fear I may have offended you. Not intended. All people throughout the world possess the same level of intelligence. Hope that clears that up.
frd, did you add this capability in response to a request or is this how you store your music files?
Other than my concern that it will be more difficult to deal with than the USB stick and SD cards I am using currently which are simple to power externally - but the PCIe adapter will make powering externally possible though more awkward than the USB stuff.
But what confuses me is that I thought you were the person who said storage was storage so what difference do you think I would hear using this storage format versus what I am using?
What is the reason for using NVMe - other than the fact it would be easy to have all of my files in one place, which would be convenient but not of utmost importance to me?
Not being one who is determined to spend money on something I suspect will either sound slightly worse due to the timing discontinuities or the same as I hear from the "storage is storage" folks.
What is your point?
If frd says that he has found this to be the way to go I would try it immediately but to take the advice of someone who as far as I know is not using the player ...
Still do not understand why people who do not currently use and have not ever used this software would even take a look at the posts here. To think that the fellow from Pilsen said he would not waste his time on my response yet the very act of coming to a forum about a device you do not use does speak of a conflicted mind if one is concerned about wasting their time. Looking at any post here would be a waste of time for me if I did not use WTFPLAY.
I have always thought of the Czechs as a particularly intelligent people. I think nationality and intelligence have correlations as do most people living in the real world. Now if we are talking social media silly world then I fear I may have offended you. Not intended. All people throughout the world possess the same level of intelligence. Hope that clears that up.
frd, did you add this capability in response to a request or is this how you store your music files?
Last edited:
You wrote yourself that you would like to use the larger storage space these devices offer. Since you don't want to use SATA then it's either NVMe or external storage.
There is no reason you should hear a difference. That was exactly my point. It's only for larger storage. As a bonus it's also considerably faster so each new track would load a little faster.
The fellow from Pilsen probably thought that your reply to him was very rude. And quite rightly so.
Let me clarify: it is not a new feature - it is a bugfix.
The support for NVMe drives has been present in wtfplay-live for a very long time. I think since 0.5. Nothing special about that.
Version 0.7 introduced a bug, where NVMe drives weren't mounted automatically. They were detected, and you could access them if you did not mind typing a few commands. Just the automatic mounting did not work.
I was not aware of this bug up until I released 0.7.1. Someone simply let me know about that - it worked in 0.6 and stopped in 0.7.
Since the fix was trivial (an extra line in a configuration) I decided to release 0.7.2.
Let me reiterate, with 0.7.2 mounts NVMe automatically (as any other detected drives) while 0.7.1 you need to do this manually. Apart from that the two releases are identical.
I hope that this resolves any confusion regarding that.
The support for NVMe drives has been present in wtfplay-live for a very long time. I think since 0.5. Nothing special about that.
Version 0.7 introduced a bug, where NVMe drives weren't mounted automatically. They were detected, and you could access them if you did not mind typing a few commands. Just the automatic mounting did not work.
I was not aware of this bug up until I released 0.7.1. Someone simply let me know about that - it worked in 0.6 and stopped in 0.7.
Since the fix was trivial (an extra line in a configuration) I decided to release 0.7.2.
Let me reiterate, with 0.7.2 mounts NVMe automatically (as any other detected drives) while 0.7.1 you need to do this manually. Apart from that the two releases are identical.
I hope that this resolves any confusion regarding that.
I am interested in anything related to linux audio. WTFPLAY is not a device, it is a linux distribution with a custom player using standard alsa user-space library, like every other linux player (directly of through pulseaudio).
You keep talking about "timing discontinuities". Do you actually know what is timing your DA conversion, i.e. the only timing which matters as the rest is just a chunked data stream?
Last edited:
pfofman,
I respect your knowledge completely. I would never attempt to compete with you in the fine details of what is happening.
I call everything a device. I was not trying to sound computer literate. I have no desire to pretend that I know how all of the stuff works together
All I do is try things and hear what I THINK sounds better. You can be surprised at what, seemingly, inconsequential things can do.
My DAC is run in synchronous mode. It sounded better than it did in asynchronous more with my setup.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The rest of this is repeat and I repeat it since I think the setup described is very good.
I have simply tried various motherboards and CPUs over the years and have gone to admittedly ridiculous lengths when it comes to powering the mother board to hear what happens.
I have no desire to have the most expensive setup in the world and I do not. I think one of the best things about WTF is that allows people to have an excellent player for a reasonable price.
I am far more hardware obsessed than frd.
Over the years I have observed that using as little power on the motherboard makes a difference. The quality of the power makes a difference though I find no need to go crazy with elaborate super regulators and such.
To that end I am greatly enjoying what I hear from the ASROCK J3355M and the J3455B - at the moment I think I like the former better and since there is not much else different in the boards I suspect it has to do with "desktop" memory where the other board used "laptop" memory.
It is not my conceit that memory can sound different. Plenty of others do and have for years. It is akin to trying out different brands of tubes though I am a solid state user.
Using the HDPLEX ATX modlue with their SMPS was greatly superior to the 800 watts highly regarded but I cannot remember the name, ATX supply. ANYONE could hear that.
I should mention (now I am repeating myself) that everything is turned off in the BIOS except HPET and the command in WTF says it is being used. I also use the ECO setting since, when comparing ECO with NORMAL, there is the sonically beneficial slowing down of the CPU. This is plainly heard if one is sensitive to digital artifacts. I think WTF goes a tremendously long way is making these less likely to occur but the motherboard certainly is always there doing its damage along with doing its job. It is a trade off.
After using the SDTrans for a year or so until I destroyed it with power supply trials I do not think I am losing much of anything. Impossible to compare - all I can go on is my desire to listen as long as I want without "anxiety" which is why I think AB tests are useless unless one set it up to account for the long term listening required to become annoyed by the sound which will always occur eventually.
As has been said the best way to improve the sound of your system is to not listen to it for a few days. You almost get to start from scratch. Unfortunately for me listening to music is watching TV to most. I must listen to some music every day. This along with the challenge/puzzle of how to trick the ear brain into believing what you are hearing has some relation to what music sounds like.
Substituting the SALAS L Adapter for the SMPS made a difference. Not a huge one but at least the AM radio in the kitchen can be used while this computer is on. I do not think this is the case for many - probably something funny in my house wiring. There were no obvious sounds at idle with the SMPS. This is one of those things that I will readily admit to thinking it must be good because so many say it is. I do think it is better but I can offer no proof that it is.
Using a SALAS Ultra BIB regulator for the USB to the DAC made a difference I would think anyone could hear. Using EBAY Audiowind regulators for the other USB drives made no difference but I like the idea of lessening the load on the L Adapter. The L Adapter is set to 19 volts as was the SMPS but cannot summon but half of the current.
Turning off SATA makes the difference of being able to boot with the L Adapter or not. Undoubtedly, SATA, even when not used consumes a fair amount of power and luckily this board allows you to actually turn that off. EDIT I neglected to mention turning off SATA makes for a better sounding player. USB in and out is very good and I used to think that USB was horrible for audio.
I am using high quality USB drives but nothing that costs hundreds much less one hundred dollars. I do not hear any difference between the SD cards and the various USB drives. At this point I have no interest in trying different USB drives or SD cards. I was hoping there would be some miraculous improvement or that the SD card would be demonstrably superior. Maybe the state of storage art is at the point that the ideal is close at hand?
I only bring this up as a suggestion to get good sound for three hundred dollars, depending on how you build your supplies. It could be more but you would have to go really crazy to hit four hundred if one is handy making their own power supplies.
I greatly prefer the convenience of WTF over the SD card players. The ability to use various forms of storage is another advantage. Being able to see your files easily, and I am one who usually disdains convenience but the difference is now so small as to be useless for most.
There is a fellow at AUDIO ASYLUM who has a tagline of "It is is less than the difference I hear from turning my head one inch ..." I cannot remember how he finished it other than to say WHO CARES if the difference is that infinitesimal and I agree fully.
Yes, I sincerely love this player and hope other people find out for themselves what it can do.
I respect your knowledge completely. I would never attempt to compete with you in the fine details of what is happening.
I call everything a device. I was not trying to sound computer literate. I have no desire to pretend that I know how all of the stuff works together
All I do is try things and hear what I THINK sounds better. You can be surprised at what, seemingly, inconsequential things can do.
My DAC is run in synchronous mode. It sounded better than it did in asynchronous more with my setup.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The rest of this is repeat and I repeat it since I think the setup described is very good.
I have simply tried various motherboards and CPUs over the years and have gone to admittedly ridiculous lengths when it comes to powering the mother board to hear what happens.
I have no desire to have the most expensive setup in the world and I do not. I think one of the best things about WTF is that allows people to have an excellent player for a reasonable price.
I am far more hardware obsessed than frd.
Over the years I have observed that using as little power on the motherboard makes a difference. The quality of the power makes a difference though I find no need to go crazy with elaborate super regulators and such.
To that end I am greatly enjoying what I hear from the ASROCK J3355M and the J3455B - at the moment I think I like the former better and since there is not much else different in the boards I suspect it has to do with "desktop" memory where the other board used "laptop" memory.
It is not my conceit that memory can sound different. Plenty of others do and have for years. It is akin to trying out different brands of tubes though I am a solid state user.
Using the HDPLEX ATX modlue with their SMPS was greatly superior to the 800 watts highly regarded but I cannot remember the name, ATX supply. ANYONE could hear that.
I should mention (now I am repeating myself) that everything is turned off in the BIOS except HPET and the command in WTF says it is being used. I also use the ECO setting since, when comparing ECO with NORMAL, there is the sonically beneficial slowing down of the CPU. This is plainly heard if one is sensitive to digital artifacts. I think WTF goes a tremendously long way is making these less likely to occur but the motherboard certainly is always there doing its damage along with doing its job. It is a trade off.
After using the SDTrans for a year or so until I destroyed it with power supply trials I do not think I am losing much of anything. Impossible to compare - all I can go on is my desire to listen as long as I want without "anxiety" which is why I think AB tests are useless unless one set it up to account for the long term listening required to become annoyed by the sound which will always occur eventually.
As has been said the best way to improve the sound of your system is to not listen to it for a few days. You almost get to start from scratch. Unfortunately for me listening to music is watching TV to most. I must listen to some music every day. This along with the challenge/puzzle of how to trick the ear brain into believing what you are hearing has some relation to what music sounds like.
Substituting the SALAS L Adapter for the SMPS made a difference. Not a huge one but at least the AM radio in the kitchen can be used while this computer is on. I do not think this is the case for many - probably something funny in my house wiring. There were no obvious sounds at idle with the SMPS. This is one of those things that I will readily admit to thinking it must be good because so many say it is. I do think it is better but I can offer no proof that it is.
Using a SALAS Ultra BIB regulator for the USB to the DAC made a difference I would think anyone could hear. Using EBAY Audiowind regulators for the other USB drives made no difference but I like the idea of lessening the load on the L Adapter. The L Adapter is set to 19 volts as was the SMPS but cannot summon but half of the current.
Turning off SATA makes the difference of being able to boot with the L Adapter or not. Undoubtedly, SATA, even when not used consumes a fair amount of power and luckily this board allows you to actually turn that off. EDIT I neglected to mention turning off SATA makes for a better sounding player. USB in and out is very good and I used to think that USB was horrible for audio.
I am using high quality USB drives but nothing that costs hundreds much less one hundred dollars. I do not hear any difference between the SD cards and the various USB drives. At this point I have no interest in trying different USB drives or SD cards. I was hoping there would be some miraculous improvement or that the SD card would be demonstrably superior. Maybe the state of storage art is at the point that the ideal is close at hand?
I only bring this up as a suggestion to get good sound for three hundred dollars, depending on how you build your supplies. It could be more but you would have to go really crazy to hit four hundred if one is handy making their own power supplies.
I greatly prefer the convenience of WTF over the SD card players. The ability to use various forms of storage is another advantage. Being able to see your files easily, and I am one who usually disdains convenience but the difference is now so small as to be useless for most.
There is a fellow at AUDIO ASYLUM who has a tagline of "It is is less than the difference I hear from turning my head one inch ..." I cannot remember how he finished it other than to say WHO CARES if the difference is that infinitesimal and I agree fully.
Yes, I sincerely love this player and hope other people find out for themselves what it can do.
Last edited: