Japan electronics was considered once a cheap junk too and German Telefunkens were a cheap substitutes for " real" tubes from RCA . Vitavox was just an attempt to imitate Altec and get close on cheap🙂
The best way to get a good sound is to buy gear which is disliked by DIYaudio folk. This I learned over the years:?)
The best way to get a good sound is to buy gear which is disliked by DIYaudio folk. This I learned over the years:?)
I know you wrote that in jest... but there's more than a grain of truth in there.
Commercial products tend to be very expensive when you price them by way of the BoM and ignore the manufacturing, distribution, sales and the R&D that went into them. (*)
There are people in DIYAudio that are guilty of doing just that. I believe I once overheard a comment about Nelson that he said "DIYer's are cheap"...
Heck, I recall that when he introduced the F5m he mentioned that one of his goals was to make it cheaper for the DIYAudio crowd.
These same people should be aware that the likes of Nelson Pass, Wayne Colburn and a very few other designers that are willing to give their IP for free are extremely rare. Even crazy people like ZM.
( Heck, I don't give my IP for free either... I charge my customers through the nose for it... as much as I can get. It's called a Free Market. It pays my mortgage, kids' college tuition, food, etc... ).
It's one thing to know how to BUILD an electronic audio component; it's a whole different, and far more complex, affair to DESIGN an audio component.
(*) The unfortunate part of this is the closed loop feedback where as the price goes up the bling goes up too.. so one feeds the other. The end result are things like the WIlson Chronosonic XVX and the latest D'Agostino electronics
They've gone off the Deep End and I guess rich people buy them... but, do they sound good? Not to my ears ( I've heard them ). But, if your wife (these are for sure men's toys ) doesn't complain that you built a room to hold those Robotic Affairs, I'd guess you could show them off to your Ferrari/Aston Owner Club buddies.
Commercial products tend to be very expensive when you price them by way of the BoM and ignore the manufacturing, distribution, sales and the R&D that went into them. (*)
There are people in DIYAudio that are guilty of doing just that. I believe I once overheard a comment about Nelson that he said "DIYer's are cheap"...
Heck, I recall that when he introduced the F5m he mentioned that one of his goals was to make it cheaper for the DIYAudio crowd.
These same people should be aware that the likes of Nelson Pass, Wayne Colburn and a very few other designers that are willing to give their IP for free are extremely rare. Even crazy people like ZM.
( Heck, I don't give my IP for free either... I charge my customers through the nose for it... as much as I can get. It's called a Free Market. It pays my mortgage, kids' college tuition, food, etc... ).
It's one thing to know how to BUILD an electronic audio component; it's a whole different, and far more complex, affair to DESIGN an audio component.
(*) The unfortunate part of this is the closed loop feedback where as the price goes up the bling goes up too.. so one feeds the other. The end result are things like the WIlson Chronosonic XVX and the latest D'Agostino electronics
They've gone off the Deep End and I guess rich people buy them... but, do they sound good? Not to my ears ( I've heard them ). But, if your wife (these are for sure men's toys ) doesn't complain that you built a room to hold those Robotic Affairs, I'd guess you could show them off to your Ferrari/Aston Owner Club buddies.
Last edited:
Our posts went by each other.
As I posted, DIYaudio is filled with cheap *** builders that somehow think that Intellectual Property should be free.
( Hey, don't yell, thankfully that's a small percentage... I met more than quite a few of you who understand the value of IP ).
Not to say that I like bling. But the days of B&K black boxes seem to be long gone.
Just look at the story of Vinny Rossi's company... he went up market because that's where the buyers are.
https://www.vinnierossi.com/collection/
There are very few wives that would countenance my living, hmm.. listening room.
As I posted, DIYaudio is filled with cheap *** builders that somehow think that Intellectual Property should be free.
( Hey, don't yell, thankfully that's a small percentage... I met more than quite a few of you who understand the value of IP ).
Not to say that I like bling. But the days of B&K black boxes seem to be long gone.
Just look at the story of Vinny Rossi's company... he went up market because that's where the buyers are.
https://www.vinnierossi.com/collection/
There are very few wives that would countenance my living, hmm.. listening room.
Last edited:
Hi Fi was always a luxury product. I once semi joked but it was actually true that my grandpa had to sell a cow to buy a radio , my father had to sell a pig to buy a radio and I am picking perfectly good radios for free on the curb 🙂
Yes, I agree that the era of great sounding British "black box" -some of them not that cheap actually is gone.
Yes, I agree that the era of great sounding British "black box" -some of them not that cheap actually is gone.
PS.
How many of you are buying oil paintings ? Originals from semi recognized painters ? Bronze sculptures or any sculptures? Haute Couture ? Heck bouquets of flowers for your dwellings just to decorate not for birthday or any other occasions?
How many of you are buying oil paintings ? Originals from semi recognized painters ? Bronze sculptures or any sculptures? Haute Couture ? Heck bouquets of flowers for your dwellings just to decorate not for birthday or any other occasions?
6moons was mentioned in the last headphones.com livestream. It wasn't a positive mention iirc 😂
Last edited:
Yeah, for decoration purposes. Nothing wrong with a bit of decorating. Audio jewellery is ok if you have the money for it. It's ok to laugh at it too, though 😁
I have bought some.... at last measurement most of our walls are covered and we have like five, six, seven... curio cabinets with all kinds of art.
I tried to buy some art off the walls at the Dali museum... but like the Picasso and El Prado, they wouldn't.
BTW, there's an excellent Cheech Marin collection at the Riverside Art Museum. We found some Chicano artists we never knew about... so I'm making plans to buy one or two signed prints from them.
I find that a collection of Lladros helps with acoustics in the room. They all have different resonant frequencies..
I did the same (within a thin budget) . The point I was trying to make is that price and value are two different things and it's a loosing battle to counter societal trends. If something is overpriced the manufacturer goes under and from what I observed is that the good guys who underprice their products disappear first -bitterly.
If I can inject a little politics in the China related thread I heard that one day Chairman Xi called all his billionaires and told them " you already bought your Bentleys , multiple mansions and are drinking most expensive booze making cheap sh..t. Now you're going to invest all your profits in R&D and fly me to the Moon. Those who will disagree will disappear". And sure enough those who disagreed were never heard from again.
Chinese manufacturers may still be behind in the audio "ether and mystical qualities" or simply practical know how which is not easily quantifiable because it involves some sort of cultural DNA (methinks). But they will eat us alive soon enough. I remember my friend and about first Audio Research dealer in US always putting down that "Jap sound" He had some nice $$ Esoteric digital stuff on the shelves and I asked him what does he think of it. He just waved his hand and said "yer know , it's just that Jap sound" .
Anybody cares to explain the "Jap sound' ?
If I can inject a little politics in the China related thread I heard that one day Chairman Xi called all his billionaires and told them " you already bought your Bentleys , multiple mansions and are drinking most expensive booze making cheap sh..t. Now you're going to invest all your profits in R&D and fly me to the Moon. Those who will disagree will disappear". And sure enough those who disagreed were never heard from again.
Chinese manufacturers may still be behind in the audio "ether and mystical qualities" or simply practical know how which is not easily quantifiable because it involves some sort of cultural DNA (methinks). But they will eat us alive soon enough. I remember my friend and about first Audio Research dealer in US always putting down that "Jap sound" He had some nice $$ Esoteric digital stuff on the shelves and I asked him what does he think of it. He just waved his hand and said "yer know , it's just that Jap sound" .
Anybody cares to explain the "Jap sound' ?
Luxman has always been extremely nice. Accuphase always very good too. Sony had a history of excellence and brilliant R&D. Denon always did great work too. Until those firms all went global and got bought out by Western themed hedge funds.
I love that line in the movie 1941 when they're trying to get that big radio down the hatch of the Japanese sub and one of them says to the others: "We got to make them smaller". That's a truly funny line, IMHO. In the 50s we got all of those small Japanese transistor radios. ;-D
The Japanese pay attention to detail that makes the Germans - and everybody else- blush and jealous. They are also very honest. The Taiwanese run close to them in such respects.
The Mainland Chinese are far more pragmatic on such things. My biggest beef with them is that they don't respect Intellectual Property. Their abilities are never in question, it's always been their cavalier attitude and willingness to cheat. So they put out crap to make a profit if they see the opportunity... and they will copy without paying royalties if they can get away with it.
Great story about Xi.
High End audio has always been pricey.
I love that line in the movie 1941 when they're trying to get that big radio down the hatch of the Japanese sub and one of them says to the others: "We got to make them smaller". That's a truly funny line, IMHO. In the 50s we got all of those small Japanese transistor radios. ;-D
The Japanese pay attention to detail that makes the Germans - and everybody else- blush and jealous. They are also very honest. The Taiwanese run close to them in such respects.
The Mainland Chinese are far more pragmatic on such things. My biggest beef with them is that they don't respect Intellectual Property. Their abilities are never in question, it's always been their cavalier attitude and willingness to cheat. So they put out crap to make a profit if they see the opportunity... and they will copy without paying royalties if they can get away with it.
Great story about Xi.
High End audio has always been pricey.