Unbelievable ! this efficiency from such '15 driver. Not really cheap.
But 110db/1W/1m by the topmodel without horn - is this possible?
Are there experience about this transducer series? Thank you for your comments
price list for GOTO 38cm woofer SG38 series:
SG38WN $7125.00
SG38WNS $9375.00
SG38WNSS $11,125.00
SG38WNSP $15,000.00
SG38WNSSP $20,000.00
and some more URLs:
http://audioportal.su/showthread.php?p=390258
http://www.goodsoundclub.com/PDF/GOTO.pdf
6moons.com - industry features: Goto Unit
But 110db/1W/1m by the topmodel without horn - is this possible?
Are there experience about this transducer series? Thank you for your comments
price list for GOTO 38cm woofer SG38 series:
SG38WN $7125.00
SG38WNS $9375.00
SG38WNSS $11,125.00
SG38WNSP $15,000.00
SG38WNSSP $20,000.00
and some more URLs:
http://audioportal.su/showthread.php?p=390258
http://www.goodsoundclub.com/PDF/GOTO.pdf
6moons.com - industry features: Goto Unit
Attachments
there's a problem with the specs on the http://www.goodsoundclub.com/PDF/GOTO.pdf listing of the SG-38WN series... the sensitivity changes, the flux changes but the Fs and the Qt does not. Perhaps a typo.
How they get THAT MUCH sensitivity out of these drivers when no one else does is a bit of a mystery to me... I'd like to see some real tests vs known drivers and some FFT results...
_-_-bear
How they get THAT MUCH sensitivity out of these drivers when no one else does is a bit of a mystery to me... I'd like to see some real tests vs known drivers and some FFT results...
_-_-bear
iirc, 110db/1w/1m is nowhere near 100% efficiency, nor 1 acoustic watt...
According to the specs it has freeair at 40Hz. and Qt of 0.25, so T/S alignments still work... if true it will not go flat to 40Hz in a ported box, but will be similar to some other Altec drivers that are <100dB/1w (like the 515?) but are highly regarded.
I am still skeptical about these specs, since even as a midbass driver those are specs that NO ONE else has matched, afaik, ever!!
Otoh, a certain British pro audio driver manufacturer used to pick a peak in the rather peaky frequency response as the "reference sensitivity" so that they looked "good". The reality was that the useful sensitivity was far lower than they featured in their specs and advertising - despite a big magnet and nice looking construction.
The usual problem with jacking up the sensitivity is that you reach a limit on the effectiveness of a bigger magnet, and then the only way to go is to make the gap thinner, which in turn means that it is easier to rub the VC, meaning the power handling is very limited in practice, and if you manage to make a driver that does this, you need a high slope HP filter to prevent LF over excursion which causes bottoming of the VC, the VC out of the gap or rocking which causes rubbing. You want the maximum number of turns in the gap as well, and this is a problem too...
So, still skeptical.
_-_-bear
According to the specs it has freeair at 40Hz. and Qt of 0.25, so T/S alignments still work... if true it will not go flat to 40Hz in a ported box, but will be similar to some other Altec drivers that are <100dB/1w (like the 515?) but are highly regarded.
I am still skeptical about these specs, since even as a midbass driver those are specs that NO ONE else has matched, afaik, ever!!
Otoh, a certain British pro audio driver manufacturer used to pick a peak in the rather peaky frequency response as the "reference sensitivity" so that they looked "good". The reality was that the useful sensitivity was far lower than they featured in their specs and advertising - despite a big magnet and nice looking construction.
The usual problem with jacking up the sensitivity is that you reach a limit on the effectiveness of a bigger magnet, and then the only way to go is to make the gap thinner, which in turn means that it is easier to rub the VC, meaning the power handling is very limited in practice, and if you manage to make a driver that does this, you need a high slope HP filter to prevent LF over excursion which causes bottoming of the VC, the VC out of the gap or rocking which causes rubbing. You want the maximum number of turns in the gap as well, and this is a problem too...
So, still skeptical.
_-_-bear
There are no measurements... if they are able to build a driver that is said to be this exceptional, one should think they would be able to also measure it - whats the point in building such a great device if you dont proove its greatness? Highly dubious. Besides, the materials used in the driver dont justify the price.
Besides, the materials used in the driver dont justify the price.
Well, maybe it does
If its cobolt iron and such, it gets very expencive, considering the large size
Whether it really leads to significantly better sound is another matter
Btw, theres a funny story about very pure iron
The roman empire was partly based on their superiour swords
They didnt break in battles
In a small place in eastern europe there was small place where they made their living producing these swords
In fact it was a genuine industrial adventure
And how could they produce better quality?
Simply because the raw material they were using had its origine from meteors from space
A material from the universe
Its been proven lately
Ofcourse they had no idea back then, it was just luck
But the quality and purity of the iron they produced was on par with the very best you can get today
Problem today is that its difficult and exstremely expencive to produce pure high quality iron
Next may be drivers made of raw materials from Mars
iirc, 110db/1w/1m is nowhere near 100% efficiency, nor 1 acoustic watt...
In fact it's so near - it's over 100% 1W of acoustic energy radiated into a sphere of 1M radius will be 108dB* at the "surface" of that sphere. So 110dB at 1W/1m is slightly more than 100% efficiency.
Of course there is a catch. The 108dB figure comes from the energy radiating into full 360º space. AKA 4 Pi space. The woofer isn't going to do that. It will be radiating into less space, so the energy is more concentrated. How much more concentrated depends on a lot of factors. Too many to figure out here.
So Bear, I'm with you there. Color me skeptical, too.
* or 109dB depending on what source you read. I think it may be 108.5dB
The usual problem with jacking up the sensitivity is that you reach a limit on the effectiveness of a bigger magnet, and then the only way to go is to make the gap thinner, which in turn means that it is easier to rub the VC, meaning the power handling is very limited in practice, and if you manage to make a driver that does this, you need a high slope HP filter to prevent LF over excursion which causes bottoming of the VC, the VC out of the gap or rocking which causes rubbing. You want the maximum number of turns in the gap as well, and this is a problem too...
So, still skeptical.
_-_-bear
This is what I'd assume. So it'd be a very high sensitivity driver but with very low Xmax and thermal power handling. In practise, probably outperformed by lower sensitivity more typical pro drivers running on more power?
It hits that efficiency level drving the mouthpiece of a tuba. (with special reduction piston and cylinder, not included)
indeed. it's a compression driver, so it _NEEDS_ a horn
looks like the prices have doubled,
since the turn of the century/millennium.
is the sg-38wn, the one that weighs 90 pounds ...?
http://www18.ocn.ne.jp/~tnk/index.html
since the turn of the century/millennium.
is the sg-38wn, the one that weighs 90 pounds ...?
http://www18.ocn.ne.jp/~tnk/index.html
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Unbelievable ! this efficiency from such '15 driver.
But 110db/1W/1m by the topmodel without horn - is this possible?
Are there experience about this transducer series? Thank you for your comments
Like too many manufacturers, they list the efficiency of the driver's break-up modes BW rather than the calculated efficiency that tells us the max mid band cab efficiency, which with rare exception is always < 100 dB/m.
Here's the measured specs of a SG38WNS that I calc a 98.82 dB/m using Fs, Vas, Qes and 98.89 dB/m using Sd, Mms, Cms, BL, Re and 98.80 dB/m using n0 = 4.7686 %; while they apparently measured 98.9839/m.
WRT what’s possible, the highest I’ve seen was a field coil Altec 515 with a ~55 Hz Fs [40 Hz advertised], ~1000 L Vas, 0.12 Qes = a calc’d ~113.28 dB/m = ~133.721 %, but it was from a decades old theater install, so its phenolic spider had to be pretty much beat to death, so figure its Vas was a lot smaller when new, ergo I assume its efficiency was around 109 dB/m = ~50 %.
GM
Attachments
is the sg-38wn, the one that weighs 90 pounds ...?
Dunno, if 90 lbs is the heaviest, then the one with the heaviest motor/highest flux is the SG38WNSSP.
GM
For bass, strong motor is positive only when matched with a proper load to the air. It can either be a mega 30" cone for driving more air directly, or a high pressure load like the throat of a bass horn.
A 15" cone and a regular box is not enough for finishing the job well enough. It's really not necessary to get too excited on a strong motor alone.
Yes it'd still be a good thing to have. But overall I think it's not a good engineering from engineers, and not a good buy for consumers.
A 15" cone and a regular box is not enough for finishing the job well enough. It's really not necessary to get too excited on a strong motor alone.
Yes it'd still be a good thing to have. But overall I think it's not a good engineering from engineers, and not a good buy for consumers.
In fact it's so near - it's over 100% 1W of acoustic energy radiated into a sphere of 1M radius will be 108dB* at the "surface" of that sphere. So 110dB at 1W/1m is slightly more than 100% efficiency.
I thought efficiency equals:
Energy speaker in
------------------- x 100%
Energy speaker out
And that most speakers are only 2-4% efficient.
How can it be more than 100% efficient, that goes against the laws of physics I'd think?
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