I'm starting to enjoy that test (more than i should perhaps) but i'm not overly impressed so far by the low-cost contenders. I mean; some are real good, but nothing that feels like a surprise.
Got that feeling that i'll go through many hours of listening, then i'll switch to the ATC or Voxativ and i'll be like:
Got that feeling that i'll go through many hours of listening, then i'll switch to the ATC or Voxativ and i'll be like:
Non-linear distortion of the W4-1337SD isn't up to the standard of some of the other neo TB drivers for some reason. Nice frequency response and sensitivity though.
edit: I should say the W4-1337SA as tested by Zaph. I'm assuming the SD is more or less the same driver.
edit: I should say the W4-1337SA as tested by Zaph. I'm assuming the SD is more or less the same driver.
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Might as well try my own Seas F8 while i'm at it.
http://www.seas.no/images/stories/exotic/pdf_datasheet/X1-04_Exotic-F8_Datasheet.pdf
Can't expect much above 3khz (compared to Voxativ) but the lower mid could be excellent in comparison of everything else. Will need a proper baffle though.
http://www.seas.no/images/stories/exotic/pdf_datasheet/X1-04_Exotic-F8_Datasheet.pdf
Can't expect much above 3khz (compared to Voxativ) but the lower mid could be excellent in comparison of everything else. Will need a proper baffle though.
Another observation:
it seems to have quite a difference in the overrall feeling of a 40cm2 Sd compared to a 200cm2 Sd...
I'm not saying big is automatically better but there is something different happening there.
Would be tempting to try an even bigger cone such as Supravox.
it seems to have quite a difference in the overrall feeling of a 40cm2 Sd compared to a 200cm2 Sd...
I'm not saying big is automatically better but there is something different happening there.
Would be tempting to try an even bigger cone such as Supravox.
Even if it performs well to 3KHz, it needs to be crossed lower in a multi-way design because the CTC distance to the tweeter is too high imo.
Very different power response, and usually lower distortion due to lower excursion for a given SPL.
Jon started to believe that BIGGER SOUNDS BETTER 😀😀😀
Now imagine if the driver is optimized for midrange by removing the whizzer... Or by adding a matched tweeter with carefully designed crossover...
Why it is hard to understand the physics behind "bigger sounds better", I believe that it is because there are many variables (combined) involved. Increasing Sd by multiplying drivers somehow doesn't work as expected.
After reading Jeff Bagby's review of the ATC model "S" I am a believer and see why they cost almost $1k. Like 5th Element said, the weight alone makes it worth that much (20lbs).
JonBocani, do you have the standard or model S?
https://m.box.com/shared_item/https://app.box.com/s/j1pwj8exbmioz350nu0n
JonBocani, do you have the standard or model S?
https://m.box.com/shared_item/https://app.box.com/s/j1pwj8exbmioz350nu0n
Man, have you seen the measurements of Wesayso's system at listening position? I don't hesitate to say emphatically here and now, that it is the BEST speaker system in the whole of diyAudio.
Here is frequency response and phase at listening position:
Here is step response:
Seeing this - I don't have to hear it for myself to know that it is a special and unique speaker.
Man, nothing is personal here. I didn't say his speaker is bad or good.
What I said was (1) There is this phenomenon where "bigger sounds better". But of course, usually subjectivists will object. But the point is there is this phenomenon and it is up to the subjectivists if they know the answer to that phenomenon or not (e.g. bias).
(2) People speculation about Sd is wrong regarding this phenomenon. One 18" equals two 15"? What the hell is that? You can put 50 small speakers in series-parallel configuration, it wont sound like one big speaker. (Please note this doesn't say that paralleling has no merit).
Not saying you said his speaker was good or bad. You implied scaling small Sd into larger Sd does not work as one would expect to provide benefits. That's how it sounded.
"...somehow doesn't work as expected."
"...somehow doesn't work as expected."
Then that was not my intention. Wesayso posted after my post, so I thought he was commenting on my post, so the topic was about "bigger sounds better" phenomenon. This phenomenon cannot be answered/solved with using multiple small speakers.
My favorite benefit from using multiple drivers is lowering distortion per SPL. If you know any benefit similarity between using multiple drivers and using waveguide/horn, then I favor waveguide than driver array.
This is my sharing, X. You may find it is not useful or not important, but I found it out after more than 15 years of DIY activity.
Wait what? What kind of baffle are you using?
With metal coned drivers the peaks, like the Visaton one at 7kHz are NOT the problem. Like I linked before this is the problem.
The problem is that the metal cone resonance causes a huge peak to occur in the third harmonic at around 1.8kHz that you need to avoid. Putting EQ on the 7kHz peak does NOT fix this, you need to cross over at 1.8kHz at the highest, with a steep filter, to try and address this issue.
Of course it's annoying to listen to no driver sounds good in isolation with a narrow bandpass on it and it's what some people have been saying all along. Testing wideband with some of these drivers subjectively isn't a good idea because they wont work well like that - they need a crossover to bandwidth limit them to the range that they were intended to play. Trouble is once you bandwidth limit them it sounds rubbish because our ears do not enjoy listening to music over a telephone.
The 75-1558SE measures like a real champ. The ATC has the edge in performance down low but that could be to do with its dual suspension. The TB is just as clean however, if not cleaner than the ATC over the range it's intended to be used.
I would use this driver in a heartbeat.
Jay,
That is useful and thanks for sharing that. I have not heard a line array in person. I do have horn speakers vs open faced speakers and also prefer the horn/waveguide. But I can't say that I would know if a line array like Wesayso's would sound better than a well implemented synergy like all horn system. But based on measurements alone, I would imagine Wesayso's towers to bring awe and amazement upon listening.
That is useful and thanks for sharing that. I have not heard a line array in person. I do have horn speakers vs open faced speakers and also prefer the horn/waveguide. But I can't say that I would know if a line array like Wesayso's would sound better than a well implemented synergy like all horn system. But based on measurements alone, I would imagine Wesayso's towers to bring awe and amazement upon listening.
Just for fun I listened to my speakers with a low pass at 7000 Hz and high pass at 50 Hz(!). Can't imagine judging a speaker like that when even the bottom end is crippled as well.
Come to think of it, say you do find "the best" midrange... the next big task would be to find a suitable upper and lower part as well! In the end they all need to work as one, that's a difficult enough task as is.
Takes some practice i guess. I've been listening to loose free air drivers for almost 25 years now, probably several hundreds of 'em. Sometimes i go to Solen and listen to them right on the table, simply hooked up on any source/amp... Midwoofer, Mid or tweeter; doesnt take long to know if it has potential or not.