The TI 100 from Visaton is not a driver that works well without a low crossover, like 1800Hz 4th order acoustic. It has a really nasty rise in distortion due to cone resonance amplification.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Starting from the left: lowest to highest priced.
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Just-out-of-the-box comment: Visaton really stands above in regards of built quality.
I don't know that one at all. Was just proposed by Solen. We'll give it a try anyway. Can't hurt to have 7 drivers to compare + the ones i already have...
The Beast: Max Fidelity PR4Neo. Vented extreme powered neo motor...... 2 Tesla at the gap true 100dB/watt
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sorry that was all Solen had in stock.
that is the PR4. Looks like a crazy little bastard equipped with a huge neo magnet, that one. The top contender from Tomahawk.
a NEO magnet that big on such small moving mass = scary.
Hopefully scary in a good way!
from where i stand, it looks like a Lotus Exige with a cranked-up twin-turbo v6.
But what about driveability ? Can't wait to see that.
I could have worded that more carefully. Perfectly symmetrical distortion may not necessarily generate significant IM, but any asymmetry will. Either case generates harmonic D. The even harmonics and I.M. distortion are a function of asymmetry. Creating a circuit that only produces the 2nd harmonic is next to impossible, although arguably desirable. The 2nd harmonic is one octave higher than the fundamental, which is called the 1st harmonic in engineering circles.
A few of those drivers have nice big flanges, which makes them easier to mount, but forces an increase in the distance to the tweeter, which makes the acoustic nodal line issue worse.
At the high frequency end, most of the energy comes from the center of the diaphram. With the larger diameter drivers, this means more distance to the tweeter diaphram. Nodal line issue again. If this midrange driver is only going to be operated down to 500HZ, it would seem that a smaller diameter driver, with a small mounting flange would be best.
Metal diaphram mids and tweeters often have huge resonant peaks just above the audio F range, which is said to cause fatigue over time for humans, and could be nausiating for cats and dogs. I'd recommend measuring for that as well, up to at least 30kHZ.
CSD waterfall graphs are valuable if you ignore all the low frequency data that was calculated with less than an entire period of waveshape. Ringing may sound better to some, with certain program material, but is not Hi-Fi.
At the high frequency end, most of the energy comes from the center of the diaphram. With the larger diameter drivers, this means more distance to the tweeter diaphram. Nodal line issue again. If this midrange driver is only going to be operated down to 500HZ, it would seem that a smaller diameter driver, with a small mounting flange would be best.
Metal diaphram mids and tweeters often have huge resonant peaks just above the audio F range, which is said to cause fatigue over time for humans, and could be nausiating for cats and dogs. I'd recommend measuring for that as well, up to at least 30kHZ.
CSD waterfall graphs are valuable if you ignore all the low frequency data that was calculated with less than an entire period of waveshape. Ringing may sound better to some, with certain program material, but is not Hi-Fi.
**Disclaimer**
Following comments are only based on very-first-impressions on NON-EQed drivers.
So, already listened to all of them, very briefly but will all my music excerpts. Needless to say i'll need a lot more time (and help) to draw any conclusions even for a pre-selection, but STILL. 'cause it's fun, i'll talk about my first impressions. 🙂
First of; no bad driver from the whole bunch. Small little deception from the Visaton B80 (probably expected too much) but we'll see later with the EQ...
Secundo: the TG9 is one hell of a value. I mean; i can say right now that this little cheapo driver could probably mix-up things in a blind test with much more expensive drivers.
also, no surprise there, the PR4 is extremely efficient. You might be able to break wine glasses with that one. I have no idea how it will do once EQed and SPL-matched with other, but seems promising.
Visaton Ti100 comes in 2nd place regarding energy/dynamic feeling. Also seems like the most precise and detailed. Very good first impression.
A lot of energy from the Fane as well but lacks a bit of focus to my taste, it lacks of the incisive energic texture the PR4 and the Ti100 were able to give.
FF85wk has a more average personnality but sounds really sweet on few music excerpts. Will have to revisit that one in depth.
Finally, the 10F is one of the most easy to listen from-the-shelf. To be honest it surprised me with the energy and dynamics. For some reason i was not expecting that from a Scan-speak. Will have to revisit but probably among the top 3 of the lot.
Following comments are only based on very-first-impressions on NON-EQed drivers.
So, already listened to all of them, very briefly but will all my music excerpts. Needless to say i'll need a lot more time (and help) to draw any conclusions even for a pre-selection, but STILL. 'cause it's fun, i'll talk about my first impressions. 🙂
First of; no bad driver from the whole bunch. Small little deception from the Visaton B80 (probably expected too much) but we'll see later with the EQ...
Secundo: the TG9 is one hell of a value. I mean; i can say right now that this little cheapo driver could probably mix-up things in a blind test with much more expensive drivers.
also, no surprise there, the PR4 is extremely efficient. You might be able to break wine glasses with that one. I have no idea how it will do once EQed and SPL-matched with other, but seems promising.
Visaton Ti100 comes in 2nd place regarding energy/dynamic feeling. Also seems like the most precise and detailed. Very good first impression.
A lot of energy from the Fane as well but lacks a bit of focus to my taste, it lacks of the incisive energic texture the PR4 and the Ti100 were able to give.
FF85wk has a more average personnality but sounds really sweet on few music excerpts. Will have to revisit that one in depth.
Finally, the 10F is one of the most easy to listen from-the-shelf. To be honest it surprised me with the energy and dynamics. For some reason i was not expecting that from a Scan-speak. Will have to revisit but probably among the top 3 of the lot.
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fyi: all tested using xover 420-6800hz (48db/oct) NO eq at all, except a low-shelf -10dB at the input for blocking further more lower frequencies.
This driver has stellar performance if used within its optimum frequency band but it certainly is not suitable for use up to 7kHz.
That's not scary - it's only a 3in driver. Here is what I recommended before it is 5in 98dB sensitive driver that can handle 225 watts RMS. SPL at max power, that is scary.
How are you baffling these drivers? The low frequency end (below about 1kHZ) will be substantially affected by the size of the baffle panel.
If you can't use a midrange driver up to at least 7kHZ, then you can't keep crossover points outside of the F range where the ear is most sensitive (800HZ - 6kHZ), and the range where virtually all effective stereo imaging is done (since interaural crosstalk will confuse imaging below about 800HZ).
Scary FR indeed!!! True efficiency of around 93dB. 10dB difference for most of the band compare to the PR4Neo.
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I agree with you Bob, and this is why people in Full Range forum implement FAST 2 ways with XO point below 500Hz and typically no XO above 6kHz either. Here in Multi-Way Forum it is common and accepted practice to XO between 1kHz and 3kHz where all the phase action is. These XO points aren't dictated by psychoacoustic but rather where the impedance resonance peaks are located so that a good passive XO can be implemented. Damn the phase, torpedoes full speed ahead!
I use 2.83v ref for sensitivity as that is what I set amp levels for matching. The 1w is not very useful as impedance varies.
Now stick that in a FLH and you have a 109dB sensitive speaker that has almost no discernible distortion. My ears were ringing after a few frequency response sweeps at 2.83v. 😱
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Your impression is consistent with the results of round 2 from my tests. Also the reason why I chose it as the mid tweet for my 2-way reference monitors. It is flat and needs no EQ. Very neutral yet engaging to listen to for long periods.
We told you so... The 8ohm has even lower distortion and more power handling.
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