If you buy that, short the output capacitors with the jumper. Operational amplifiers are NE5532, which is not bad and not best because there are better options. The SMSL bought by you uses LMH6643MA (which can be better than NE5532). Power supplies are different (very important by delta-sigma dacs).
Because of different setup, it can't be said which DAC chip itself will sound better. When you take another DAC in different setup, but with the same DAC chip, the sound result will be different. As a result, you compare finished products and not DAC chips.
So your questions: sound from "V-out vs. C-out?" and "D-S or MultiBit?" can't be answered that way. There is too much different products, and even when you take two same DAC chips in different products, the sound will be different
As an example:
Marantz HD-DAC1 vs. SMSL M3, they both use CS4398, but different opamps, different power supplies and so on. The sound will not be the same but one will be the winner. What happened to the DAC chip?
Because of different setup, it can't be said which DAC chip itself will sound better. When you take another DAC in different setup, but with the same DAC chip, the sound result will be different. As a result, you compare finished products and not DAC chips.
So your questions: sound from "V-out vs. C-out?" and "D-S or MultiBit?" can't be answered that way. There is too much different products, and even when you take two same DAC chips in different products, the sound will be different
As an example:
Marantz HD-DAC1 vs. SMSL M3, they both use CS4398, but different opamps, different power supplies and so on. The sound will not be the same but one will be the winner. What happened to the DAC chip?
I understand, this is very hardcore. My tests are with simple day to day use and my memory of how it sounded.
PCM56k should sound better than the 63. But to me, it sounded like that: lack of bass, very relaxed presentation, not enough dynamics, sounded like artificial but smooth at the same time, like a TDA1541 NOS but better except for low-mids. It is still sounding very ok but something was not to my liking at all.
I prefer the CSLogic to the AKM dacs, the AKM are like faultless, very neutral, true to source but their coherence in complex music is not very good, they are to me less smooth than the sabre32 and I find them more true to source, the sabre is too smooth for me, lack excitement. CSLogic has more dynamics, better soundstage, imaging and a crispness to high frequency that beats the TDA1541 hands down. They are very realistic dacs the CSLogics, with big full bass, full high, and a great ability to play any type of music with great fun.
The weakness of the CSLogic is that behind the dynamics and decay there is a lack of body and micro-detail, it is like your missing something, like a very subtle filter, it focuses on the action but behind all the sounds there is nothing. Maybe it is just too good, but I think other dacs are better to reveal micro-details.
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You have the DacMagic 100?
I unerstand that..
That's what people call the implementation.
Oh..
800$ DAC..
I did believe..
hehe
So far the answer is SMSL M3!
But music enjoyed..
But yes, I am in a DIY forum and all I do is buy.
That was the same with the speakers too.
Wow..
Maybe you have anything to say about the CS4361 chip's sound quality?
I created a thread about it, but got no reply..
Cirrus Logic CS4361 vs CS4398 DACs
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No, I only listened to 4398 and 4397 --- ) is the best
TDA1541 is less detailed somewhat, less holographic, less bass, But it has a coherence and a clarity that is perfect (in 4x OS mode with a discrete setup, with opamp is is not super good.) it is very 'calm' type of dac, like a very good vinyl setup without the problems of VTA, warping, cleaning and collecting.
TDA1541 is less detailed somewhat, less holographic, less bass, But it has a coherence and a clarity that is perfect (in 4x OS mode with a discrete setup, with opamp is is not super good.) it is very 'calm' type of dac, like a very good vinyl setup without the problems of VTA, warping, cleaning and collecting.
@spaceman Indeed this a DIY forum, maybe you'll find some more ideas here: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
@gabdx, I disagree about the Tda1541, it is just more complex to work with, especially how you manage to power it in relation to the ground layout. With todays frontend, it shines. But yes CS chips are definitly good as well.
@Spaceman, we went there, we use to think like you, reading the review from audio press...this way of thinking for real audio enthusiasts and music lovers is more than 20 years old. You can find many threads here and a sum to learn. Hifi enthusiasts without technical background had to understand the dac chip alone is only few % in the final result and dived into diy to learn and sometimes save money or not. The best advice someone can tell you and we did, is to change your view to profit even better music by buying a 1000 euros dac you listen before buying instead buying 10 x 100 usd dacs without listening it before purchase.
Now you are free, it s your time and money but here we learn nothing, again this bad approach were already done, just google. We just tried to save your time. But I m sure you will learn something from that and maybe beginn to tweak your devices if enough time and monney... while buying an on shelves dac device will give you more time and money to enjoy music and new albums. Up to you and your priorities of course, nothing bad to learn from self errors.
@Spaceman, we went there, we use to think like you, reading the review from audio press...this way of thinking for real audio enthusiasts and music lovers is more than 20 years old. You can find many threads here and a sum to learn. Hifi enthusiasts without technical background had to understand the dac chip alone is only few % in the final result and dived into diy to learn and sometimes save money or not. The best advice someone can tell you and we did, is to change your view to profit even better music by buying a 1000 euros dac you listen before buying instead buying 10 x 100 usd dacs without listening it before purchase.
Now you are free, it s your time and money but here we learn nothing, again this bad approach were already done, just google. We just tried to save your time. But I m sure you will learn something from that and maybe beginn to tweak your devices if enough time and monney... while buying an on shelves dac device will give you more time and money to enjoy music and new albums. Up to you and your priorities of course, nothing bad to learn from self errors.
Really? to go for such an expensive DAC?
Hmm..
The problem is that it's almost impossible to find where to listen to one..
I don't know people who have expensive DACs..
I mean, there are many people here, in the forum,
but we're all from different countries..
No Hi-Fi mortar shop in your country ? No audio enthusiasts where you live you could visit for real benchmarks ? I'm sure many will be ready to help you and just few streets from you ! Good place here to ask, there should be a section on Diyaudio for that : Lounge or an other one.
If you travel abroad for holiday or else, you could visit also such a shops with your favorite music on an usb thumb ?
Cause frankly, you can't buy a DAC just by reading advice here (mostly because it's DIY) while perhaps advices from people may be more honest than audio reviews which care for ads.
Now, all not is totally wrong, take what I said with a brain of salt : you have to keep a logic by buying devices according the level of the rest of your hifi ! And that's why saving money & time makes sense. You may want to upgrade the rest as I told you already. It's never a bad idea to beginn a hifi system with a good sources then choosing the speaker& & amp in relation with the first and your listening room.
In Hi-Fi stores you can hear speakers, not DACs.
Most don't hold DACs,
and even the few stores that do hold some, it's in a box, and not on display, so you cannot hear it like speakers.
With speakers, indeed, I did not buy and try many.
I heard in stores, till I found the ones I thought as best to my taste.. (The HS7)
Also when I think of it,
listening to a DAC in a store might be problematic, because it would be with different speakers that what you have, etc,
so the conditions will not be equal to what you have in your house.
Nevermind, I am fine with my current test method,
and it's definitely working for me.
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I was enjoying this thread a lot, because I would be interested in somebody's opinion from trying out different DACs without any conflicts of interest - brings consistency too. But the recent inputs, especially from diyiggy made me sit up and think - that was really good knowledge and sensible advice that we can use as suits our individual circumstances.
So sorry to have stopped your enjoyment. Nothing bad sorting out different dac devices for lurkers here.
@Spaceman5 : just tried to help you by avoiding the same mistakes I did as I used to try your method . But the most important is you enjoy what you 're doing and as you say listen to music.
Just be prudent with some CHi-Fi shops : actives and passive parts maybe sometimes counterfacts or second choice sorted. Best is to read about reputation of the seller.
Too bad you don't diy, we can help you more : with 100 to 200 USD you can get imho a better bargain with RaspBerry dac hats (look for iancanada and Allo for instance : you don't need special skills: just plug things and put a playback software on a SDcard.
WHich is informativ here is you van keep the source which is a digital receiver & streamer then only change the dac hat : this can tell you a little more about dac chips while what you hear is also all the layout around the dac chip : pcb drawing, powersupply, passive parts, analog outputt stage. Digital front end is as important as the dac chip. When buying different off shelves dacs you also change the way the designers are doing for this stage... then you can not say too much if the dac chip is involved so much in what you hear.
@Spaceman5 : just tried to help you by avoiding the same mistakes I did as I used to try your method . But the most important is you enjoy what you 're doing and as you say listen to music.
Just be prudent with some CHi-Fi shops : actives and passive parts maybe sometimes counterfacts or second choice sorted. Best is to read about reputation of the seller.
Too bad you don't diy, we can help you more : with 100 to 200 USD you can get imho a better bargain with RaspBerry dac hats (look for iancanada and Allo for instance : you don't need special skills: just plug things and put a playback software on a SDcard.
WHich is informativ here is you van keep the source which is a digital receiver & streamer then only change the dac hat : this can tell you a little more about dac chips while what you hear is also all the layout around the dac chip : pcb drawing, powersupply, passive parts, analog outputt stage. Digital front end is as important as the dac chip. When buying different off shelves dacs you also change the way the designers are doing for this stage... then you can not say too much if the dac chip is involved so much in what you hear.
Thank you, I appreciate every tip and advice I got here..
I am actually coming from the software development field,
and when I was a child/teenager, I was deeply into electronics..
(electronics was then followed by software)
Lately (since 2012), I came back to electronics again, due to Microcontrollers.
(specifically Arduino)
I also printed some PCBs that I created (with Fritzing.. really easy to use program, no learning curve literally).
I like to use Seeedstudio, and JLCPCB for PCB Printing - both are really high quality, and really fairly priced.
The reason I did not get into DIY with DACs, is because I wanted a working solution fast,
without all the tweaking and setting..
I am actually coming from the software development field,
and when I was a child/teenager, I was deeply into electronics..
(electronics was then followed by software)
Lately (since 2012), I came back to electronics again, due to Microcontrollers.
(specifically Arduino)
I also printed some PCBs that I created (with Fritzing.. really easy to use program, no learning curve literally).
I like to use Seeedstudio, and JLCPCB for PCB Printing - both are really high quality, and really fairly priced.
The reason I did not get into DIY with DACs, is because I wanted a working solution fast,
without all the tweaking and setting..
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So for you it could be very easy and fast to go the Raspberry way, you really don't need to solder and may have acess the last brandnew dacchips staying with your budget method.
Sorry to read you have no shops to try dacs around you : listening many systems is very informative and helpy to ptogress. You're right, halas most of the time we can NOT get our speakers in such shops to test the Dacs they sell... but I often seen shops with devices like the dacmagic you showed for instance. Could be vey cool you find an enthusiast near from you also to test your devices on a different system : it's also very informative.
the AD1862 I linked you also exists populated but imho it's too much expensive for what you get and I'm even not sure the dac chips are 100% genuine specs (AD1862 was an expensive chip).
Sorry to read you have no shops to try dacs around you : listening many systems is very informative and helpy to ptogress. You're right, halas most of the time we can NOT get our speakers in such shops to test the Dacs they sell... but I often seen shops with devices like the dacmagic you showed for instance. Could be vey cool you find an enthusiast near from you also to test your devices on a different system : it's also very informative.
the AD1862 I linked you also exists populated but imho it's too much expensive for what you get and I'm even not sure the dac chips are 100% genuine specs (AD1862 was an expensive chip).
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thank you very much,
will do.
How expensive was it?
The CS4398 is an 11$ chip..
(of course price goes down for factories who buy quantities)
The AD1862 was more? (on the days it was still manufactured)
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I don't know exactly the price but at its time it was the top 20 bits dac chip with PCM63 (close sibbling) iirc. If you ask me my prefered dac chips are in this order AD1862, TDA1541, then CS in delta sigma. But again it's subjective cause all the layout around.
Today, to be sure to have a genuine AD1862 you must go for a referenced seller like Rochester for instance and it may cost you more than 70 euros without VAT & transport for such chips : the best is to find cdplayers from Vasili list second hand to get genuine chips, but doesn't work for you cause no DIY involved. And maybe not cheap too as there were not too much CDplayers and Dacss with AD1862 chips and tey were high end so expensive yet despite second hand.
Very little brands or Chi-Fi shops don't have the quantity enough to make important cost reduction.
Today, to be sure to have a genuine AD1862 you must go for a referenced seller like Rochester for instance and it may cost you more than 70 euros without VAT & transport for such chips : the best is to find cdplayers from Vasili list second hand to get genuine chips, but doesn't work for you cause no DIY involved. And maybe not cheap too as there were not too much CDplayers and Dacss with AD1862 chips and tey were high end so expensive yet despite second hand.
Very little brands or Chi-Fi shops don't have the quantity enough to make important cost reduction.
Do you plan to use AD1865. https://www.analog.com/media/en/technical-documentation/obsolete-data-sheets/AD1865.pdf
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