I had to replace a pair of 15" woofers in a pair of CV PD-3's that I bought new in 1984. I replaced the woofers with a Dayton pro woofer and while I was at it, I replaced the tweeters with a pair to Planar tweeters. I use these (and always have) for home stereo use and I'm very pleased with the results. I have received a ton of flak especially from the audiophile types as if I'm a moron with ludicrous speakers and the icing on the cake to them is that I'm using a pa woofer for home use.
I can see that in most home woofers there a rubber or butyl etc. surround around the cone, whereas on the pro woofers I've seen it's a sort of folded fabric or paper surround. Also the pro woofers seem to have higher power handling capacities as well as higher spl's. Beyond that, why do so many folks think pa woofers are junk for quality home use?
I can see that in most home woofers there a rubber or butyl etc. surround around the cone, whereas on the pro woofers I've seen it's a sort of folded fabric or paper surround. Also the pro woofers seem to have higher power handling capacities as well as higher spl's. Beyond that, why do so many folks think pa woofers are junk for quality home use?
PA speakers generally have a higher Fs and lower Xmax when compared to a "standard" speaker. They are intentionally designed this way to achieve higher efficiency.
Nothing wrong with using them in a home setting as long as the design is specifically tailored for them. Just dropping them in as a replacement for blown or bad speakers would be a crap shoot with really bad odds.
Nothing wrong with using them in a home setting as long as the design is specifically tailored for them. Just dropping them in as a replacement for blown or bad speakers would be a crap shoot with really bad odds.
Thanks for the info. I guess I was fortunate and got lucky this time. The bass is now tighter and more controlled.
Here is the info on the Dayton's:
Specifications: • Power handling: 500 watts RMS/1,000 watts continuous program • VCdia: 3" • Le: 3.38 mH • Impedance: 8 ohms • Re: 5.8 ohms • Frequency response: 28-3,500 Hz • Fs: 28.3 Hz • SPL: 98.5 dB 2.83V/1m • Vas: 8.85 cu. ft. • Qms: 9.99 • Qes: 0.23 • Qts: 0.24 • Xmax: 5.0 mm • Dimensions: A: 15-1/8", B: 14", C: 6-3/4"
Here is the info on the Dayton's:
Specifications: • Power handling: 500 watts RMS/1,000 watts continuous program • VCdia: 3" • Le: 3.38 mH • Impedance: 8 ohms • Re: 5.8 ohms • Frequency response: 28-3,500 Hz • Fs: 28.3 Hz • SPL: 98.5 dB 2.83V/1m • Vas: 8.85 cu. ft. • Qms: 9.99 • Qes: 0.23 • Qts: 0.24 • Xmax: 5.0 mm • Dimensions: A: 15-1/8", B: 14", C: 6-3/4"
Pro woofers tend to have a higher Fs for a given size. For example, 12" Pro woofers tend to be designed for mid bass applications, even up to midrange. As you see, they are designed to get a lot of sound per watt.
I use whatever woofer models best in the software for the application.
I use whatever woofer models best in the software for the application.
Pro drivers are designed with different capabilities for use in a different environment. For example, would you want a farm tractor engine in your family car?
Mike
Mike
I use pro drivers at home all the time. I've found nothing better. Don't let your buddies buffalo ya, pro driver are were it's at. But you won't find the fan boys drooling over them in the audio mags.
True, you need a bigger box to get very low bas out of pro woofers, but you also need a great deal less power. Often 10 times less for the same levels. And with the pro drivers you get dynamics and a big sound (if those things are important to you).
Just FWIW, a year or two ago The Absolute Sound Reviewed the big CV with the double 15s. They were quote surprised to find how much they liked it.
True, you need a bigger box to get very low bas out of pro woofers, but you also need a great deal less power. Often 10 times less for the same levels. And with the pro drivers you get dynamics and a big sound (if those things are important to you).
Just FWIW, a year or two ago The Absolute Sound Reviewed the big CV with the double 15s. They were quote surprised to find how much they liked it.
They work great for everything except low bass. Only problem is very few pro drivers get measured like hi-fi drivers.
Cool Pano, I do like the dynamics and big sound. And my old CV's are just slightly larger than what the specs for the woofer consider optimum. Here is a picture of the CV's I've had since I was 18.....I have a grandson now. lol
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
The only advantge Hi-Fi woofer has over Pro one is a cost. I can get Hi-Fi woofer for ridiculously low price at a factory buyout store.
It's the accordion surround you mentioned that makes the difference.
In fact, at the low signal levels T/S specs are taken at, your speakers look very much like hifi speakers. And, if you play your music at levels that won't attract the sirens, it's likely you won't hear any difference. But the difference will be there, and if you happen to drop a needle on a record the difference will prevent your speakers from going "clank" while bottoming out.
You see, the problem with running speakers all night at levels that will drown out a live band is heat. Since clipped signals generate a lot more heat than clean signals, the first step is to use huge power amps that will never clip. Then, with all that power, we have to worry about someone dropping a microphone and sending a mammoth spike to the speakers. So we use suspensions that are non-linear. That will compress loud signals and absorb many times the rated input without mechanical damage.
HTH,
Keri
In fact, at the low signal levels T/S specs are taken at, your speakers look very much like hifi speakers. And, if you play your music at levels that won't attract the sirens, it's likely you won't hear any difference. But the difference will be there, and if you happen to drop a needle on a record the difference will prevent your speakers from going "clank" while bottoming out.
You see, the problem with running speakers all night at levels that will drown out a live band is heat. Since clipped signals generate a lot more heat than clean signals, the first step is to use huge power amps that will never clip. Then, with all that power, we have to worry about someone dropping a microphone and sending a mammoth spike to the speakers. So we use suspensions that are non-linear. That will compress loud signals and absorb many times the rated input without mechanical damage.
HTH,
Keri
So it's not an actual fidelity issue then? Based on your description, I think I made a good choice going with these woofers. I use fairly powerful home amplifiers like the Nikko Alpha 650, SAE 2400, and SAE 2600 so there is a great deal of dynamic headroom and I only play at levels that make use of a small fraction of my amps continuous output. Most of the time I'm in the 2 to 10 watt range and occasionally I stretch the legs a bit but still nowhere near any of my amplifiers limits.
It's my home system so there are no mikes to worry about and I'm not into vinyl. I intentionally have speakers and amps larger than needed for typical home use but I like the rich full sound I get from these speakers and my amps are likely way more than what I need, but it's nice to know I'll never make my amps work too hard or run out of headroom and clip.
No sirens here unless I'm listening to Thin Lizzy.
Thanks for helping me understand the differences a bit better Keri, it is appreciated.
Edit: I also noticed the specs on this Dayton pro speaker go somewhat higher than most other pro 15 inchers I looked at.
It's my home system so there are no mikes to worry about and I'm not into vinyl. I intentionally have speakers and amps larger than needed for typical home use but I like the rich full sound I get from these speakers and my amps are likely way more than what I need, but it's nice to know I'll never make my amps work too hard or run out of headroom and clip.
No sirens here unless I'm listening to Thin Lizzy.
Thanks for helping me understand the differences a bit better Keri, it is appreciated.
Edit: I also noticed the specs on this Dayton pro speaker go somewhat higher than most other pro 15 inchers I looked at.
Last edited:
Personally, I'm drooling to find a pair of ElectroVoice HP9040 horns and DH2 drivers for putting together my main mains for home use. I already have six DH3s, four HPT94 horns and eight EVM12S midbass (guitar?) drivers gathering dust just waiting.
Yes, pro drivers for home use are just grand
Yes, pro drivers for home use are just grand
How do you like those Daytons? I have a pair of them in my living room for sub duty. I use a hp at 35hz and lp at 63hz. I love them. They make a great bottom for the Peavey 215 that sits atop each one, hp'd at 50hz..It is certainly enough to annoy the neighbors, when I choose to.
..talk about a redneck living room, lol. I got the set-up above running off a older Mackie 1400 and a QSC 2450 mounted in a portable rack sitting under the TV. Next to those, I have a small 8 ch mixer that ties in laptop, TV, a Fender 212 combo and a Behringer BXI 3000 Bass combo. Right now I have the News on TV, no vol. and sitting here listening to Dubstep...are we dysfunctional, or what?
..talk about a redneck living room, lol. I got the set-up above running off a older Mackie 1400 and a QSC 2450 mounted in a portable rack sitting under the TV. Next to those, I have a small 8 ch mixer that ties in laptop, TV, a Fender 212 combo and a Behringer BXI 3000 Bass combo. Right now I have the News on TV, no vol. and sitting here listening to Dubstep...are we dysfunctional, or what?
There have been some CV fans cringing when I told them I replaced the original woofers with these Dayton's but I'm glad I did. The bass is still there but it's tighter and more controlled. I wish I couls say what my crossover points are but I don't know. Some of the caps and resistors can't be read right now because they are glued to their backing.
I don't think we're dysfunctional at all. We have what we have and we must be getting enjoyment from our gear. I'd have to say we are using just the right equipment until we decide otherwise. lol
My mood determines which amp I use. My amps are listed in my sig.
I don't think we're dysfunctional at all. We have what we have and we must be getting enjoyment from our gear. I'd have to say we are using just the right equipment until we decide otherwise. lol
My mood determines which amp I use. My amps are listed in my sig.
This is the truth of what it is all about. I have always looked away from funny looking pro sound drivers until my daughters started learning to play guitars and sing. I bought that bass combo with a single 15 and a bass guitar for myself...and thought it sounded good. Compared to the PV/Daytons, it now sounds like it farts a little bit in comparison..lol It does have a handy XLR DI out though.
I could not tell from the pic, but are the CV cabs ported?
Yeah, it's actually a full width slot on the bottem rear about 3" high.The slot makes a kind of s inside the cab and of course there is plenty of damping material. I bought them new while I was stationed in Germany in 1984.
Last edited:
- Status
- Not open for further replies.