Starting with the definitive recording of the 1812 overture done by Telarc decades ago,
Very few Hi Fi / Stereo systems can take what they are given, and reproduce it:
The real canon signal they recorded had a high volume component at 6 Hz.
A couple of Decades before that, RCA was recording the 1812 overture, with a real canon.
Somebody turned the amplifier up too loud, the woofer cone on the monitor flew out of the speaker basket.
"A man's got to know his limits" - Dirty Harry / Clint Eastwood
Very few Hi Fi / Stereo systems can take what they are given, and reproduce it:
The real canon signal they recorded had a high volume component at 6 Hz.
A couple of Decades before that, RCA was recording the 1812 overture, with a real canon.
Somebody turned the amplifier up too loud, the woofer cone on the monitor flew out of the speaker basket.
"A man's got to know his limits" - Dirty Harry / Clint Eastwood
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What used to be one of my local electronics shops had a very suave manager. There were a lot of West indian guys in the locality and so a lot of Reggae. He'd sold some loudspeakers to a big reggae fan, who insisted he come round and listen as "the speakers had suddenly improved and the bass sounded fantastic".
He'd blown both tweeters and was as happy as Larry.
Maybe you noticed what happened when played too loud...better beware.
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If any of those were perfect yes. But all of our audio gear is flawed in some way due to the many compromises that have to be made.
dave
Amplfier distortion is different than speaker distortion. It can be annoying or a problem when present in much smaller amounts.
dave
dave
That won't work; the drawing has a major error.
And there's not really any "asymmetry", certainly nothing interesting. Go paraphase.
I could only add that deliberate injection of 2nd harmonic doesn't improve the sound. That has been demonstrated long time ago.
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Great discussion. My SE experience was with low power amplifiers. Because, for the sake of lowering distortion, they further have to be used at only a fraction of their nominal power, they require high efficiency speakers. Unfortunately, there are no hi eff speakers that can reproduce the top end clearly, like, for example, Heil AMT, Bohlender Graebener, or electrostats. Horns are aquired taste, like cigars, I couldn't get used to them. So, as mentioned in this thread before, with low power SE one is confined to the kinds of music where there is no top end (girl and guitar), or where top end distortion doesn't matter (rock).
But then members posted great experience with complex music played through higher power SE. I am tempted by the idea of making a 10-15 W SE amplifier with bigger tubes. Who knows, maybe I am missing something?
But then members posted great experience with complex music played through higher power SE. I am tempted by the idea of making a 10-15 W SE amplifier with bigger tubes. Who knows, maybe I am missing something?
Can't agree on the distorted guitars with kick drums, where severe kind of smearing kicks in, even on many "claimed" hi fi systems with SS amps measuring well on paper. The same thing applies to full orchestra symphony though. But such a well recorded music needs a high dynamic range, it's not compressed as most "guitars with drums" and then you need high power headroom to recreate it.
I found a high power and local feedback SE does symphonic extremely well. I love testing with big choirs too, as discerning as many voices as you can is always a good sign (less IMD)?
Not trying to be rude in any way, so please do not take it that way, but maybe you need to get out more and hear some better horns?
But I do agree that horns are not for everybody. The clarity afforded by narrow dispersion and the room largely removed from the playback can be quite illuminating on imprecise setup and other things not quite right in a system, but when it is right I've not heard any better for a dedicated listening room. Personally, I find 'stats and ribbons to be flat and relatively undynamic (is that a word?) compared to my horns. But ribbons eg. RAAL can be magnificent if not used too low, and by too low I mean any lower than the highest octave and a half, and when used high like that can match in well with a horn midrange in terms of both sound and high sensitivity.
In terms of layering, clarity and wonderful playback of complex and orchestral music I am of the strong opinion that once you get to a decent enough speaker/amp setup that the source does matter a lot. There are several 'normal' dacs here that cannot run with my high-end dac once the music gets complex and requires a lot of 'sorting out'. It is even noticeable on girl and guitar, but glaring on say Bruckners 8th in full swing. As for vinyl...well I think there are a lot of things to get right there, and they are rarely inexpensive.
To my ears, excellent orchestral playback requires more than one amplifier, plenty of authority from the speaker in the lower frequencies and subtlety in the mids and highs. The same amp doing all these things just does not make sense to me...it is always a compromise whether that be SS or hollow state, SE or differential.
You might be interested in triode-connected sweep valves, well explored in the sticky thread Those Magnificent Television Tubes. Zero audiophile pretensions, but real engineering chops.
G2s are fragile, so you're forced into a very linear but lossy high current, low B+ operating point, but they all have cathodes and low output transformer impedance requirements. Might be worth exploring while they're still available, but don't wait too long to get a stock.
All good fortune,
Chris
ACG, I absolutely agree with what you say about multi-amping, and I am doing it myself. It easily solves so many problems that are difficult to solve otherwise.
You may be right that I haven't heard good horn setup. What I've heard, it always reminded me the sound coming out of old Victrola, or what you hear on acousticslly-cut 78 rpm records. Kind of distortion-free, full frequency range Victrola.
I am yet to be convinced that anything with a voice coil can faithfully reproduce the top end of audio spectrum. Planars, stats, and ribbons have the lowest distortion. If I had to choose between better room acoustics or lower distortion, I would choose the latter. But this is my personal preference, others may choose otherwise.
You may be right that I haven't heard good horn setup. What I've heard, it always reminded me the sound coming out of old Victrola, or what you hear on acousticslly-cut 78 rpm records. Kind of distortion-free, full frequency range Victrola.
I am yet to be convinced that anything with a voice coil can faithfully reproduce the top end of audio spectrum. Planars, stats, and ribbons have the lowest distortion. If I had to choose between better room acoustics or lower distortion, I would choose the latter. But this is my personal preference, others may choose otherwise.
Chris, I am afraid I cannot get where I want to with TV tubes. First, most of them have inadequately low screen rating for triode connection, so you may get only a watt and a half out of them, at best. Second, there are no directly heated sweep tubes.
I am experimenting with 8042, a directly heated RF pentode. In triode connection, it has mu and Gm close to those of 2A3, can be run at 250 V and has 25 W plate dissipation. But output power is also close to that of 2A3. I am aiming at 10-15 W, so probably it is going to be GM70.
I am experimenting with 8042, a directly heated RF pentode. In triode connection, it has mu and Gm close to those of 2A3, can be run at 250 V and has 25 W plate dissipation. But output power is also close to that of 2A3. I am aiming at 10-15 W, so probably it is going to be GM70.
6P45S can be run at 350V Plate + g2 in triode mode, dissipating 40W. And you can get 12W out of it.
Yeah, and I have a stash of some 20 of them. If they were directly heated... I bought them for a Crazy Drive project, which I didn't yet have a chance to start.
And then, for 10 W probably need A2 with MOSFET followers, not my cup of tea.
And then, for 10 W probably need A2 with MOSFET followers, not my cup of tea.
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Type 8042: interesting; (I had to look it up). 5 Watt G2 (absolute max) rating! My GE manual (1973) has an error in its pinout drawing, but it looks like several pins for G2; a good sign that the 5W rating is real. Unusually low filament voltage should make AC heating easier. Could be you've found a sleeper.
Last few generations of sweep valves can run at 250 Volts safely and have huge cathodes for high perveance. Plugged into a spot in place of a 2A3, they swing further and have fractions of the anode resistance, so outputs can be larger and distortion lower. Looks like that'll be true for type 8042 also.
Paul Klipsch said that what the world needs is a good five Watt amplifier, although he actually used the 3dB bigger Brooks amplifier back in the day. Arf.
YOS,
Chris
Last few generations of sweep valves can run at 250 Volts safely and have huge cathodes for high perveance. Plugged into a spot in place of a 2A3, they swing further and have fractions of the anode resistance, so outputs can be larger and distortion lower. Looks like that'll be true for type 8042 also.
Paul Klipsch said that what the world needs is a good five Watt amplifier, although he actually used the 3dB bigger Brooks amplifier back in the day. Arf.
YOS,
Chris
There is also an indirect-heated version of 8042, have to look up the name. Can be used in acute experiments to save the directly heated ones. So far, I was paying less than $10 for a 8042. If I see cheaper, I buy; if more, then refrain.