Noob here.
Lets say you had an amp that you liked. And you wanted to make a clone of it. So you take it apart. You disconnect the wires going from the power supply etc, and eventually you are looking at the circuit board. How difficult would it be to remove all the components...and trace a new board. Buy all the components...and make a copy.
Please remember, I'm a noob😀.
thanks
Lets say you had an amp that you liked. And you wanted to make a clone of it. So you take it apart. You disconnect the wires going from the power supply etc, and eventually you are looking at the circuit board. How difficult would it be to remove all the components...and trace a new board. Buy all the components...and make a copy.
Please remember, I'm a noob😀.
thanks
I think that's called reverse engineering. It can be done but it's usually done by persons with a lot of experience in these sorts of things.
Without any knowledge I will throw my opinion in:
If the board is simple (i.e. connections only on top and on bottom, or maybe only bottom), it should be fairly easy to do.
If the board is multilayered (i.e. there are contact layer between top and bottom) I guess you would need to x-ray it, or spend like weeks in measuring where wich connection goes...
But first of all, you would need to check, whether you can even get all the required components, and more importantly, if you can even identify them in the first place (scraped-off component numbers, glued heatsinks, etc.)
All in all not the easiest of challenges 😉
If the board is simple (i.e. connections only on top and on bottom, or maybe only bottom), it should be fairly easy to do.
If the board is multilayered (i.e. there are contact layer between top and bottom) I guess you would need to x-ray it, or spend like weeks in measuring where wich connection goes...
But first of all, you would need to check, whether you can even get all the required components, and more importantly, if you can even identify them in the first place (scraped-off component numbers, glued heatsinks, etc.)
All in all not the easiest of challenges 😉
You tell, single, double or multi by inspection i.e. you look at it, test for continuity with a DMM, and figure it out. Hold it up against a bright light, this will show you the copper areas. Look and identify those on the top (component side) and bottom (solder side). Any not on top and bottom are inbetween. Three layer boards are not common, you might get 4, more likely 7 once it's gone to multi.
It's best just to draw a netlist. Put a continuity tester methodically on every pin of every device and make a note of every pin it connects to.
Now you can draw the circuit in a schematic capture software.
Now you can import the schematic into a PCB layout tool. Place the virtual components as they are placed on the original. Make the obvious connections as per the ratsnest and the original PCB. Now you're mostly done apart from tidying up and beefing up the high current tracks, placing any fills or power planes.
w
It's best just to draw a netlist. Put a continuity tester methodically on every pin of every device and make a note of every pin it connects to.
Now you can draw the circuit in a schematic capture software.
Now you can import the schematic into a PCB layout tool. Place the virtual components as they are placed on the original. Make the obvious connections as per the ratsnest and the original PCB. Now you're mostly done apart from tidying up and beefing up the high current tracks, placing any fills or power planes.
w
I had my try at reverse engineering ECUs to find out why exactly they're broken. I cannot say I'm too keen on doing this. It's hard work.
vundernoob: why would you want to do this ?
You're not going to learn anything, I presume if you're just copying it. And its not going to be cheaper because you'll be buying parts at retail.
What is the motivation for such an exercise ?
You're not going to learn anything, I presume if you're just copying it. And its not going to be cheaper because you'll be buying parts at retail.
What is the motivation for such an exercise ?
Much appreciated fellas,
I was wondering if I could do this because of both a learning experience and from a project perspective. I understand that it would be a hard task...but it just seems that (at least from a single layer PCB) it wouldn't be that difficult. I guess my brain is telling me that, if you can see the traces, follow them, draw it out...then get all of the identical components...once you make the PCB, you can just..."plug & play". Am I missing the big picture on this?
I was wondering if I could do this because of both a learning experience and from a project perspective. I understand that it would be a hard task...but it just seems that (at least from a single layer PCB) it wouldn't be that difficult. I guess my brain is telling me that, if you can see the traces, follow them, draw it out...then get all of the identical components...once you make the PCB, you can just..."plug & play". Am I missing the big picture on this?
is this a single sided PCB for example?
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/parts/167951-gamut-amp-acting-sparkler.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/parts/167951-gamut-amp-acting-sparkler.html
I think most of the classic mid-fi amps of the 1970s..80s would be easy enough to clone. A schematic would help a lot to identify component values. The pc boards are all big, no smd components. You can put a pcb on a photocopier to get an image to trace, or photograph it. I've traced out a few pcbs from items where i cannot get a schematic - I photograph its foil, reverse print it, and draw in the components manually, then trace the circuit.
...lol sorry, wrong post.
That is a single sided PCB. After all, I OWN IT.
google "copying PCB" and quite a few interesting links will pop up.
Cheers
That is a single sided PCB. After all, I OWN IT.
google "copying PCB" and quite a few interesting links will pop up.
Cheers
Vundernoob:
Unless you have the permission of the owner of the circuit, you are, of course, proposing the theft of someone's intellectual property. Perhaps you ought to consider building something that is in the public domain, or a circuit that the owner has offered to the DIY community (e.g., many Nelson Pass designs).
Regards,
Scott
Unless you have the permission of the owner of the circuit, you are, of course, proposing the theft of someone's intellectual property. Perhaps you ought to consider building something that is in the public domain, or a circuit that the owner has offered to the DIY community (e.g., many Nelson Pass designs).
Regards,
Scott
Vundernoob:
Unless you have the permission of the owner of the circuit, you are, of course, proposing the theft of someone's intellectual property. Perhaps you ought to consider building something that is in the public domain, or a circuit that the owner has offered to the DIY community (e.g., many Nelson Pass designs).
Regards,
Scott
This is a general question about reverse engineering a PCB. I do plan on quite a few builds...but have no particular PCB in mind to steal
. Not yet anyways. And if I did, I certainly would not try to pass it of as my design OR sell it. Thanks for your response though.
vundernoob/aptquark/whatever: you may not post until you respond to my email regarding multiple registrations. Possibly not even after then without a good explanation.
Sherlock Holmes you're not BTW. PM SY and I give him permission to disclose our conversation.
ASSumptions are futile.
😀
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