Car drivers are built very heavily, bigger magnets (decent BL), rugged cone assembly, suitable T/S parameters for both sealed as well as ported, decent power handling, and are widely available, all good things. What makes them less popular among DIYers?
?? They're pretty popular for various TL alignments since vented requires large/long vents otherwise. In general though, their Vas spec tend to be too low and Qts, Le specs too high, hence too low an efficiency with too narrow a BW for high SQ systems.
Many car bass drivers are not well designed. Large clearance in the magnet gap (to make the driver more forgiving for production margins and heavy abuse by the end user) decreases the Bl. No shorting rings on the pole piece etc etc.
Some are nice though, and the high quality ones can take a beating and abuse few other drivers would survive even for a few seconds.
Good quality car audio bass drivers needs strong and stiff baffles due to their large moving mass and powerful motor structures.
The last HROAR12 I built does tend to move around when plying with a kilowatt or two. Despite being a large 250 liter box with many internal pieces making up the tapped pipe section - and built out of 21 mm plywood. With the right DSP processing it does sound very nice, but it is very powerful and will very fast become overwhelming in a room when used with some power.
I would definitely not want to use this kind of driver in a bass reflex box though. The box volume to port size ratio needed to avoid excessive air particle velocity at one kilowatt is quite a challenge.
Some are nice though, and the high quality ones can take a beating and abuse few other drivers would survive even for a few seconds.
Good quality car audio bass drivers needs strong and stiff baffles due to their large moving mass and powerful motor structures.
The last HROAR12 I built does tend to move around when plying with a kilowatt or two. Despite being a large 250 liter box with many internal pieces making up the tapped pipe section - and built out of 21 mm plywood. With the right DSP processing it does sound very nice, but it is very powerful and will very fast become overwhelming in a room when used with some power.
I would definitely not want to use this kind of driver in a bass reflex box though. The box volume to port size ratio needed to avoid excessive air particle velocity at one kilowatt is quite a challenge.
Which Pioneer car audio subwoofer driver did you measure?
Most of the ones I've seen have have published Qts values that are much higher than that.
Which 305, 'C' or 'DVC'?
Regardless, at 0.34, 0.37, this indicates maybe they're finally 'stepping up their game', though unable to find a price, but still looks like some of the cheap ones my neighbors buy at the local 'big box' when on sale and measure significantly out of spec for the worse: https://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pio/pe/images/portal/cit_11221/126763076TRD1215-A.pdf
Regardless, at 0.34, 0.37, this indicates maybe they're finally 'stepping up their game', though unable to find a price, but still looks like some of the cheap ones my neighbors buy at the local 'big box' when on sale and measure significantly out of spec for the worse: https://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pio/pe/images/portal/cit_11221/126763076TRD1215-A.pdf
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As well, auto drivers often seem to be overly pricey for what you get.
I would expect some OK for small sealed boxes, but the room gain in a car is significantly greater than in a room.
dave
I would expect some OK for small sealed boxes, but the room gain in a car is significantly greater than in a room.
dave
True.
I read a while ago that in 1 car, a seale qtc .707 with an f3 of 45hz became flat down to 7hz.....
I read a while ago that in 1 car, a seale qtc .707 with an f3 of 45hz became flat down to 7hz.....
I have a pair of Infinity 1262w car subwoofers in 1.5cubic ft sealed enclosures. They're pretty good for the money, but I can't pretend they're capable of doing what a hi-fi sub will do. Just like I don't expect a pro woofer to play down as low as the other two types. In a car, I could probably use one of my sealed 12s with cabin gain and be content. At home, I have to dial the EQ or they sound awful. I definitely look forward to upgrading, but not because they're garbage, just that I know there is a lot more I can do and get by going with better quality and purpose built drivers.
It's all about tradeoffs. There is a lot about a car sub that isn't ideal, but if it's cheap and can do what you need it to, it beats nothing.
It's all about tradeoffs. There is a lot about a car sub that isn't ideal, but if it's cheap and can do what you need it to, it beats nothing.
Yea, I like to see anechoic f3 ported near 27hz (house, apartment).
F9 of 27hz is “lean” to me (for a subwoofer).
I haven’t played with deep sealeds, yet.
F9 of 27hz is “lean” to me (for a subwoofer).
I haven’t played with deep sealeds, yet.
Pioneer models with "C" suffix are/were low Qts woofers for Cabinets, and older models with "F" suffix were high Qts for "Free air" (open baffle).
I remember that the specs were widely off from the ones mentioned on the sub package the driver came in. I had to re measure the driver just to believe the low Qts.
While its true that Pioneer had high Qts drivers for free air application and lower Qts for sealed/ported application, yet it was pleasantly surprising to see that the Qts was much lower than the published for the model. Rest of the parameters, I didnt care much.
While its true that Pioneer had high Qts drivers for free air application and lower Qts for sealed/ported application, yet it was pleasantly surprising to see that the Qts was much lower than the published for the model. Rest of the parameters, I didnt care much.
+1.
Also, moving mass tends to be on the high side. The suspension and motor are usually designed so you can't bottom the driver out (running a ported box below tuning, for instance), so there are non-linearities designed in.
My 2x JBL GTO1214 in an 18" cube always sounded muddy to me - likely the harmonic distortion, but I've never done any serious measurements there.
Chris
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