why cant we agree?

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#62
Eldam,

Have you listened to Vandersteins ? I have always found them the "do no wrong" speaker. Confortable like an old pair of shoes. Soft or loud.

I prefer NOT to listen to old JBL's 🙂 Gad, are we really 100 years after Rice and Kellog? I guess so. Reading the ASE papers from post war, we already knew what to do, the problem remains materials. Paper and silk still being very hard to beat. Modern CAD and measurement have really stepped up our drivers in the last 20 years, but still we have a long way to go.
 
#64
tvrgeek said:
Eldam,

Have you listened to Vandersteins ? I have always found them the "do no wrong" speaker. Confortable like an old pair of shoes. Soft or loud.

I prefer NOT to listen to old JBL's 🙂 Gad, are we really 100 years after Rice and Kellog? I guess so. Reading the ASE papers from post war, we already knew what to do, the problem remains materials. Paper and silk still being very hard to beat. Modern CAD and measurement have really stepped up our drivers in the last 20 years, but still we have a long way to go.
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I'd love to but difficult to find here in France... Maybe because they are a killer brands ! Good Q/P. In second hand I never saw it in france... neither brand new.

Imagine than find new Magneplanar here is like to find water in Gobbi desert...maybe 5 shops in France. Why : good Q/P is hard for professional vendors, they want good margin : minimum X2 : that's the way they choose their speakers, some more serious than overs but the final is a question of good margin. Few distributors in france, they all buy adds in reviews and most of French speak only french... it changes with the young people but not all of them, we have old reflexs here, bad reflexs! At least have to say there are a lot of brands and goods speakers in Europe...easier to sold with the cost of transport...

In another side : ferrit, Alnico, Neodynium, others magnets give different results, have signature and nobodies know why...Alnico seems the best : between the strengh of ferrit and neodynium...myth ? You have too the Electro magnet speakers : fantastic but too less brands for a real choice (the rest is important too) ! So modern can be few...
 
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#65
gedlee said:
Yes, it is simplistic. It seems like that is what it takes in these kinds of arguments to make a point.
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Yes, I understand. I just want to point out that there is more to it than that, and I think it has to do with psychophysics/psychoacoustics. And yes, I agree that we would agree on the basics of sound quality.

tvrgeek said:
If you are looking for artificial musicality, then Pano is correct.
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Actually that was not the track I was taking, tho it's valid. It's more about what makes a recording "bad" or "good". Those are usually subjective terms, at least when used in this context. A great speaker can't remove the bad parts, but it can make them less objectionable. That's the concept.

I'll try to outline this in more detail. At the moment medication is making my brain a little foggy. Let me gather my thoughts I'll try to explain in more detail. 😱
 
#67
midrange said:
I was in a radio museum in London many years ago, with a roomful of visitors, when a high quality wind up 78 player with a large horn (more than a metre across the mouth) was played. You could almost hear the jaws hitting the floor. The unanimous view was that it sounded so real. This is extraordinary, in that the sound was distorted, had no bass, and a far from even FR; and yet everyone was spellbound with Caruso "in the room".
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A friend had a similar experience - he was in an office environment, many people had on the normal, modern rubbishy background music makers - then, from down the hall he heard 'magic', music emerging clear, rich and full. Tracked it down to an individual's room, who had, of course. one of those very types of players, who let it rip every now and again to clear the cobwebs ... 🙂

The fundamental issue is that people are still largely floundering as regards what makes one instance of reproduction subjectively 'work', vs. another. Trying to combine technical assessment with the subtleties of psychoacoustics is proving to be the proverbal can o' worms - otherwise one wouldn't come across so many acoustic disasters when checking out supposed 'good' systems ...
 
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