why is there is quite a worrying level of disagreement among hifi people when it comes to what sounds good?
What do the most expensive audiophile brand speakers have in common that makes them superior?
What do the most expensive audiophile brand speakers have in common that makes them superior?
because what we think looks good and sounds good is a matter of personal taste and there's more than one way to achieve the same results?
Yes.
1) Because the result is not the same for all.
Music reproduction is a cultural experience + a physic experience.
We spend a lot o time on the technical side and there are a lot of results.
The more the quality increase the more the interpretation is difficult :
There are the experience of the listener : the more you are experienced the more it's difficult to satisfy you. Your prioroties change and hifi reproduction is a trade off.
2)
The price in the eyes of the owner... sometimes can change his mind, same about hifi reviews : read 4 hifi reviews who say that a speaker is good as it is very bad...you find it good...and less good your experience increase and you compare with more gooder speakers.
Many brands have some good speakers that's why they are a brand, witrh the times it can be different : reviews have money with adds...
You can waste the result if your source or amp are too bad.
No one agree about the best brand of speaker or the best speaker itself...some short lists.
And most of time the test is with different tunes, sort of music, different rooms and sources, amp...Q/P.
Du grand n'importe quoi !
1) Because the result is not the same for all.
Music reproduction is a cultural experience + a physic experience.
We spend a lot o time on the technical side and there are a lot of results.
The more the quality increase the more the interpretation is difficult :
There are the experience of the listener : the more you are experienced the more it's difficult to satisfy you. Your prioroties change and hifi reproduction is a trade off.
2)
The price in the eyes of the owner... sometimes can change his mind, same about hifi reviews : read 4 hifi reviews who say that a speaker is good as it is very bad...you find it good...and less good your experience increase and you compare with more gooder speakers.
Many brands have some good speakers that's why they are a brand, witrh the times it can be different : reviews have money with adds...
You can waste the result if your source or amp are too bad.
No one agree about the best brand of speaker or the best speaker itself...some short lists.
And most of time the test is with different tunes, sort of music, different rooms and sources, amp...Q/P.
Du grand n'importe quoi !
I am at the Rocky Mountain Audio Fest. There are probably a couple 100 exhibitors here spread over 2 hotels. Come visit next year and maybe you will find an answer to your question.
so is it possible that a cheap $500 3 way floor stander can beat a $200,000 Magico speaker system? this is not possible surely.
yes but I think some people are not able to tell the difference. So their opinion is not that important.
slightly arrogant to dismiss one persons opinion as irrelevant, when it is just as valid as a proclaimed 'audiophile'.
if the aim is to make a perfectly flat, perfectly time aligned etc etc speaker, then it becomes pure maths at which point you can only present your direct measurements and schematics. At that point you might dismiss an opinion that isn't directly challenging those results with other measurements and maths.
if you're basing something on what sounds 'good', then its entirely subjective with no right or wrong, just as a piece of visual art. One persons curse is another persons nirvana.
To be "superior" in audio is a subjective quality.
Smooth and wide frequency response, even polar response, accurate transient response, low distortion, wide dynamic range all are important, but which features are most important is a subjective choice we each make.
Few listeners would rate the above metrics of judging a speaker with the same weighting, and excellent speakers may simply be too large to be considered.
Price does not insure the above qualities in a speaker's response, but it is doubtful that a system selling for $200,000 would not be better in most respects than a $500 system, though after several thousand dollars the primary "improvements" are related more to aesthetics than sonic quality.
that is where most of the money goes
btw, I listened to an old but newly top serviced casette tape deck the other day
to be honest, I didn't know my speaker were that good
and apparently I had forgot how music should sound
compares to the best ATC and Naim
well, I have been around that before
but not with an old tape deck casette
btw, drivers in my DIY speaker are Vifa XT19, Focal 5", Mivoc 12"
cheap stuff, and really crappy filter components
so if its all subjective, why bother with an even polar response? or accurate transient response? some people might prefer a very ragged polar pattern together with an inaccurate transient response. A wide frequency response is also not necessarily agreeable to everyone. Plenty of audiophiles live with a bookshelf monitor. Some even claim they can hear beyond 20khz.
no, thats just an assumption you make for yourself
noone prefer that
but they may not know better, or can't afford it, or may not even care one bit 😉
to make the sound you dream of is a lot of constant work
and enjoying music may be down the drain very fast
well, you are a new member
build some nice stuff instead, and forget the highend crap 😀
its not assumption. If you think its all subjective, then that means i can prefer absolutely anything. I can prefer a sawtooth frequency response and you could not say I am wrong.
However I am actually not in favor of subjectivity. I am arguing that it should be more objective. The problem is there arent enough people who are trained to understand how to listen and what they are hearing. This is one reason we get such varying opinions.
Let the martket decide. I bet there have been speakers sold that possessed ragged polars and inaccurate transients, and maybe even people who bought them and liked them. Are they still in business? If it was a viable model, why haven't more manufacturers jumped on the bandwagon?
Sort of like lutefisk. It is made, some people eat it. Have you ever seen it on a menu? More than one menu (because I'm sure somebody will say they've seen it)?
The market has decided that not enough people like it, so no McLutefisk.
I agree with this - start building, it's a gift that never stops giving.
It includes a wide range of activities, woodworking, xo/electronics to painting/finishing and it does take a lot of patience and practice.
What about re-building the speakers that you have? Might be better idea than replacing the woofers (thread from a few days ago).
It includes a wide range of activities, woodworking, xo/electronics to painting/finishing and it does take a lot of patience and practice.
What about re-building the speakers that you have? Might be better idea than replacing the woofers (thread from a few days ago).
There is a big difference between "preference" and "reference" - one is subjective, like judging soup and the other is objective, making measurements. If you prefer your audio to be "preference" then there is no right or wrong and there can never be convergence of opinion. But if you believe that "reference", i.e. accuracy is the true goal then there is absolutely a right way and a wrong way and a convergence of opinions is inevitable.
Since no one can be forced to accept accuracy as the goal then there will always be differences of opinion. Among those who believe in accuracy there isn't really much difference. So the first question that should be asked in any query is: "which camp do you belong?" If its "preference" then be prepared for a complete lack of anything concrete.
Since no one can be forced to accept accuracy as the goal then there will always be differences of opinion. Among those who believe in accuracy there isn't really much difference. So the first question that should be asked in any query is: "which camp do you belong?" If its "preference" then be prepared for a complete lack of anything concrete.
The problem with this lies in determining what accuracy is supposed to mean. Accurate with reference to what? The best answer is perhaps the original recording, but then you would need to know the actual parameters of the original recording to determine how accurate your reproduction of that recording actually is.
How many times have I read these same words on this and other speaker forums? I've lost count.
people listen to music for different reasons.
Some listen for a "sound stage"
Some listen expecting the concert sound
then you have music choices,
our ears perceive sounds differently
Some listen for a "sound stage"
Some listen expecting the concert sound
then you have music choices,
our ears perceive sounds differently
- Status
- Not open for further replies.