Perhaps your full rangers have no bass, but mine certainly have enough for me.
Here's a rather extreme example. I basically never listen this loud (95-100dB peaks).
You can't hear it in the video but everything in the china/crystal cabinet is rattling like mad. The sound quality sucks because the mic/input on my iPhone is clipping, not the sound system.
You'll have to take my word for it, that it sounds pretty darned clean. Not perfect, but like I said I am really, really pushing the system here. Something I basically never do. At "normal" SPL, it covers the spectrum extremely gracefully.
Demo 1 - YouTube
Here's a rather extreme example. I basically never listen this loud (95-100dB peaks).
You can't hear it in the video but everything in the china/crystal cabinet is rattling like mad. The sound quality sucks because the mic/input on my iPhone is clipping, not the sound system.
You'll have to take my word for it, that it sounds pretty darned clean. Not perfect, but like I said I am really, really pushing the system here. Something I basically never do. At "normal" SPL, it covers the spectrum extremely gracefully.
Demo 1 - YouTube
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Back in 2011, norman bates asked forum members "Does a whizzer full range do better intelligibility than a non whizzer?"
whizzer and intelligibility ?
The discussion ran to seven pages.
whizzer and intelligibility ?
The discussion ran to seven pages.
Even multi-ways have IMD. To avoid it you would need a separate driver for each frequency. You draw the line at what? 3 drivers? 4?
I'll say it again, this is not a demonstration of typical use of my full range speakers.
No, Doppler distortion is a bit of a misnomer, this is a fascinating read Doppler Distortion in loudspeakers
Sometimes I like plenty of bass, it depends on the music and volume, true, I have a WAW/FAST set up and I can switch it to with or without, I switch it to without for late night listening so there's no chance of disturbing my neighbours at low volume.
Nice to have that option. Makes sense.
I ran a WAW setup for a long time (miniDSP, bi-amping, etc) and found I never really used the extra bass power. I also felt the bass wasn't truly coherent and satisfying and I was always dicking around with the miniDSP to try to dial it in.
One day I had enough and got rid of it all. Went back to listening to the music rather than listening to my system.
I ran a WAW setup for a long time (miniDSP, bi-amping, etc) and found I never really used the extra bass power. I also felt the bass wasn't truly coherent and satisfying and I was always dicking around with the miniDSP to try to dial it in.
One day I had enough and got rid of it all. Went back to listening to the music rather than listening to my system.
Yes, Gilbert Briggs, of Wharfedale fame, was dismissive of Doppler distortion as long ago as 1958.
He calculated that the maximum velocity attained by a voice coil moving 1/2" at 50Hz was equal to only 4.45mph and that any resultant change in pitch of a high frequency note could not be detected by the human ear.
Point source is important
Many times in my life I've listened to modest audio systems that had "full range" drivers, and they often gave remarkably good sound, allowing they probably only did 100-10K, for inexpensive components (even some table radios). I have never listened to a true high quality fullrange system.
I can only speak in generalities. there should be beaming as frequency increases. Even so, a single speaker should be a point source and mostly free of combing and other problems usually found with multi-driver systems. Finally I must put in a plug for the Danley Unity or Synergy (and similar MEH): they give a virtual point source in two dimensions and minimize uneven response at different angles/off-axis/etc.. Oops I strayed off the Fullrange property, sorry!
Many times in my life I've listened to modest audio systems that had "full range" drivers, and they often gave remarkably good sound, allowing they probably only did 100-10K, for inexpensive components (even some table radios). I have never listened to a true high quality fullrange system.
I can only speak in generalities. there should be beaming as frequency increases. Even so, a single speaker should be a point source and mostly free of combing and other problems usually found with multi-driver systems. Finally I must put in a plug for the Danley Unity or Synergy (and similar MEH): they give a virtual point source in two dimensions and minimize uneven response at different angles/off-axis/etc.. Oops I strayed off the Fullrange property, sorry!
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Interesting topic. Here's my observation for what it's worth.
Assumption: I understood intelligibility in the initial post to be about speech or 'clarity' and my response is restricted to that....
The comments about bass got me thinking as my experience is the opposite.
30+ yrs ago I noticed a big difference between vocals when the cassette was played in the car and then in the domestic set up.
By any estimate the quality of the units in our home system should have been significantly better than those in the car.
But I noticed that vocals were noticeably clearer when I was driving compared with when I was sitting at home. I couldn't see a theoretical reason why.
I mentioned this to our Church organist who is a trained musician classical/pop etc. She replied straight away...."Me too, when I want to hear lyrics I always play the song while driving the car...".
Any explanation? What got me thinking was the earlier comments about a LACK of bass helping....in cars the 'noise' spectrum is dominated by bass...the exact opposite.
I don't like mysteries and the only thing I could think of was the following.
Is it possible that our hearing has evolved to hear speech more clearly when facing environmental challenges....i.e. have we developed hearing in the vocal range that is more acute when running away from a volcano, earthquake or when in a loud flood or shipwreck or the heat of battle...
Anyway I'm just throwing this anecdote out there.....
Any ideas?
Cheers Jonathan
Assumption: I understood intelligibility in the initial post to be about speech or 'clarity' and my response is restricted to that....
The comments about bass got me thinking as my experience is the opposite.
30+ yrs ago I noticed a big difference between vocals when the cassette was played in the car and then in the domestic set up.
By any estimate the quality of the units in our home system should have been significantly better than those in the car.
But I noticed that vocals were noticeably clearer when I was driving compared with when I was sitting at home. I couldn't see a theoretical reason why.
I mentioned this to our Church organist who is a trained musician classical/pop etc. She replied straight away...."Me too, when I want to hear lyrics I always play the song while driving the car...".
Any explanation? What got me thinking was the earlier comments about a LACK of bass helping....in cars the 'noise' spectrum is dominated by bass...the exact opposite.
I don't like mysteries and the only thing I could think of was the following.
Is it possible that our hearing has evolved to hear speech more clearly when facing environmental challenges....i.e. have we developed hearing in the vocal range that is more acute when running away from a volcano, earthquake or when in a loud flood or shipwreck or the heat of battle...
Anyway I'm just throwing this anecdote out there.....
Any ideas?
Cheers Jonathan
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I’ll add this too, when I had my w8-2146 as a center channel, it was clearly obvious the audio was delayed compared too the video watching blade runner 2049 versus my stereo jbl 2-ways (didn’t notice it on the jbl’s). It smacked you in the face, it was apparent without listening for it, instantly recognizable.
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A good FR in a good box can produce good bass. Usually that same FR will have even more DDR and be able to play louder if you remove the need for it to reproduce bass.
Matt, your thots on lack of bass are off-base.
dave
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