It's not just end users and reviewers either. I read a manufacturers site recently which claimed that a 15" driver moves 4 times as much air as a 7.5" driver and so the 7.5" would need to move 4 times as fast to keep up. I suggested that if the 15" was producing a 20Hz tone and the 7.5" was moving 4 times as fast, it would be producing an 80Hz tone. That kind of thinking doesn't go over well with the marketing types. 🙂
Maybe the cone moves four times faster out to the turnaround, pauses, then moves back four times faster to the other side. 😉
don't forget, the more distance a driver moves, the more harmonic distortion is created.
Bunch of 18's don't move much compared to a bunch of 10's.
All in all, I think cone area is what to shoot for.
I prefer my 4 x 18" subs versus the 4 x 12" with double the xmax able to move the same amount of total air, but I like 1 box 2'x2'x4' versus 2 boxes 24" x 30" x 48".
Some slowness can be from the woofer filter.
I remember seeing na 18db filter at 80hz had something like 24mS delay at 50hz, but I can't remember if it had more delay the closer to 80hz or less.
Bunch of 18's don't move much compared to a bunch of 10's.
All in all, I think cone area is what to shoot for.
I prefer my 4 x 18" subs versus the 4 x 12" with double the xmax able to move the same amount of total air, but I like 1 box 2'x2'x4' versus 2 boxes 24" x 30" x 48".
Some slowness can be from the woofer filter.
I remember seeing na 18db filter at 80hz had something like 24mS delay at 50hz, but I can't remember if it had more delay the closer to 80hz or less.
Driver cone velocity ...
Is not constant. At issue is the acceleration it is undergoing. Instatanious velocities are both a lot larger and a lot smaller than that supposed here. WHG
Is not constant. At issue is the acceleration it is undergoing. Instatanious velocities are both a lot larger and a lot smaller than that supposed here. WHG
Hello,
Add mass to the cone, the loudspeaker is not transportation utility.
It is not designed to handle additional weight.
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Why do 18" sound slow?
I have a theory 😀
My current system is a corner loaded line array. If I may say so myself, it sounds excellent, especially with full FIR correction.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/284371-corner-floor-ceiling-line-array-using-vifa-tc9.html
Small changes to the tonal balance can be heard clearly. What is great about this system is that it lets you get to the essence of the music, its meaning, its groove.
I was experimenting with Haas kickers the other day by adding a copy of the signal back into the original but just with a small to medium delay. What I found was that if I high-passed the signal, at say, 700 Hz (to keep out the directional information), then the tempo became perceptually slower. What does this mean? If you have more low frequency content, it can sound slower. Conversely, I tried adding only frequencies above 700 Hz back in, and predictably, the tempo became perceptibly faster.
How does this relate to 18" drivers? Well, maybe putting an 18" woofer in your system really elevates the level of the low frequencies, much more than what you were hearing before from a system without much low bass or at least not much volume capability. These large woofers also tend to be really efficient, so maybe there are some gains there too (which may not always be correctly equalized for comparison). From my experiment, if your tonal balance leans towards the low frequencies, the tempo becomes slower.
I have also heard Lowthers, Fostex, and Audio Nirvana full range drivers. Many people describe their bass as being very "fast." What they are really reacting to is the lack of much bass or deep bass, and an excess amount of high frequencies.
If you were to properly equalize 18" woofers, there is no reason they cannot sound right, or even "fast"--just cut the bass out.
I have a theory 😀
My current system is a corner loaded line array. If I may say so myself, it sounds excellent, especially with full FIR correction.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/284371-corner-floor-ceiling-line-array-using-vifa-tc9.html
Small changes to the tonal balance can be heard clearly. What is great about this system is that it lets you get to the essence of the music, its meaning, its groove.
I was experimenting with Haas kickers the other day by adding a copy of the signal back into the original but just with a small to medium delay. What I found was that if I high-passed the signal, at say, 700 Hz (to keep out the directional information), then the tempo became perceptually slower. What does this mean? If you have more low frequency content, it can sound slower. Conversely, I tried adding only frequencies above 700 Hz back in, and predictably, the tempo became perceptibly faster.
How does this relate to 18" drivers? Well, maybe putting an 18" woofer in your system really elevates the level of the low frequencies, much more than what you were hearing before from a system without much low bass or at least not much volume capability. These large woofers also tend to be really efficient, so maybe there are some gains there too (which may not always be correctly equalized for comparison). From my experiment, if your tonal balance leans towards the low frequencies, the tempo becomes slower.
I have also heard Lowthers, Fostex, and Audio Nirvana full range drivers. Many people describe their bass as being very "fast." What they are really reacting to is the lack of much bass or deep bass, and an excess amount of high frequencies.
If you were to properly equalize 18" woofers, there is no reason they cannot sound right, or even "fast"--just cut the bass out.
There is no fast or slow for size of the Subwoofer. Low bass has to be slow
I bought home 10inch subs for mid bass as people say but i found the 18inch was more clear.
I found bigger driver being more clear and transparent than small driver.
I bought home 10inch subs for mid bass as people say but i found the 18inch was more clear.
I found bigger driver being more clear and transparent than small driver.
18 were better at midbass 😱😱 you must be using a very powerful amp and the 18drivers are good quality
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N.B.: For the same output and frequency, a diaphragm with a smaller [Sd] will necessarily have a larger maximum instantaneous velocity (at zero amplitude) and a larger P-T-P excursion, as [Vd] and the time interval (1/[F] sec.), must remain constant. If taken to the extreme, the diaphragm would have to be accelerated to supersonic speeds. Of course this is not possible in the venue addressed here. However, for a smaller driver, consider the analogy of trying to row a boat with a pair of baseball bats instead of a pair of paddle-faced oars. WHG
N.B.: For the same output and frequency, a diaphragm with a smaller [Sd] will necessarily have a larger maximum instantaneous velocity (at zero amplitude) and a larger P-T-P excursion, as [Vd] and the time interval (1/[F] sec.), must remain constant. If taken to the extreme, the diaphragm would have to be accelerated to supersonic speeds. Of course this is not possible in the venue addressed here. However, for a smaller driver, consider the analogy of trying to row a boat with a pair of baseball bats instead of a pair of paddle-faced oars. WHG
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18 were better at midbass 😱😱 you must be using a very powerful amp and the 18drivers are good quality
Use smaller driver for mid instead of 18" was just a experience of mini scoop
I use 450 watt Class AB for Subwoofer
The 10" were faster than the 18" but i feel the 18" were more transparent in the frequency response between 30hz to 1khz than the 10" maybe something to do with sensitivity of the 18".
Faster is smoother sound.
After a 200Hz low-pass filter, can you hear the difference between a "slow" woofer and a "fast" one?
"After a 200Hz low-pass filter, can you hear the difference between a "slow" woofer and a "fast" one? "
Depends in part on the distortion products.
Depends in part on the distortion products.
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