timbre -- if two different sounds(not sine waves), have the same pitch and loudness, then by definition they have different timbre.
Extreme timbre -- 90db 440Hz_A on a Piano vs. 90db 440Hz_A on a flute
Subtle timbre -- 90db 440Hz_Piano on a TD15M vs. 90db 440Hz_Piano on a Altec 416 AlNiCo
There is much more to a good speaker than just polar response but it is absolutely the key to good imaging in a real room. If you haven't heard a good
constant directivity speaker you don't know what you are missing!
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I've already said that... just these numbers make me having daymare. A lot of common DACs have 0.001% (thd+n) distortion but we won't get 0.001% (thd) at 100dB with any speaker drivers. Gonna sit and wait some revolution coming.
Its quite shocking looking at some loudspeaker response graphs.
We have an amp that puts out 0.0001% distortion and a speaker that is all over the place.
All we can do is buy better drivers or tolerate cheaper ones.
A speaker is pretty complex device with resistance, inductance and capacitance, so its not surprising it isn't a precision device.
We have an amp that puts out 0.0001% distortion and a speaker that is all over the place.
All we can do is buy better drivers or tolerate cheaper ones.
A speaker is pretty complex device with resistance, inductance and capacitance, so its not surprising it isn't a precision device.
I have been lucky enough to listen to many CD systems including synergy horns and dipole. My own setup uses a dipole midwoofer and SEOS horn. So my preference is for CD
However, the most important upgrade for me was broadband absorption
As I said CD is just one piece of the puzzle
I have a feeling that the mechanical distortion and electronic distortion can't be compared on the same table. My ears seem to be much more forgiving for the mechanical distortion.
Edit: And digital distortion is the ugliest distortion to my ears...
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Indeed, my first immediate answer was:
1) brain
2) room ( anyone experienced a stationary wave ?!)
1) brain
2) room ( anyone experienced a stationary wave ?!)
If you listened pro audio drivers that sound honky and resonant but measured good, i would attribute that to very lousy executed xover.
THD may be the red herring, HD not quite.
If the woofer itself measures good (frequency response, csd and HD) i wouldn't expect honkynes from it. May it be the resonance from cabinets ?
About JBL - i had different experiences with their products. Od sjaja do očaja.
Which model did you listen to ? For me JBL 4355 and JBL 4345 worked great. JBL 240Ti and JBL L100mk2 not so much. Friend of mine bought JBL 2216nd and JBL 2430 compression driver with M2 waveguide about a month ago. He is building M2 clone so i will have the opportunity to hear the new generation of JBL monitors. JBL 2216nd is pro woofer that works up to 700Hz so i'll report back about the sound of pro woofer going that high.
I agree about HD in that context.
I most certainly will but one must bare in mind that it will be listened to in a room that is rather moderate sized - about 25m^2.
That can and will have enormous impact on perceived sound quality - especially at low frequencies.
I can also hear the resonance on pro drivers. Is there a relationship between resonance and dynamics?
I am very curious to know how you and others are so sure that what you are "hearing" is a resonance of the driver surround or suspension...
The easier way to hear it is playing back 30-60hz sine wave. Please let me know your result. 🙂
PS: I re-tuned the surround and the noise gets much quieter.
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I don't know if this has been brought up here before, but the nature of the perception of nonlinear distortion has been well studied before (see my website below). In our study we found that THD levels of .01% and 10% could be perceived equally, while some distortions at 15% were inaudible. This test had dozens of participants in a blind study. The THD levels were found to be not correlated to perception, with an ever so slight preference for MORE distortion!
Basically any discussion of THD in loudspeakers or amps or anything is pointless as these numbers do not mean anything.
The bottom line is that it is the nature of the nonlinearity that matters NOT the THD level. Electronics crossover distortion can be audible at .01%, while loudspeakers can be inaudible at 15% - it all matters on the nature of the nonlinearity. Basically distortion in a loudspeaker can easily be made inaudible while in an amp it takes some work.
This is all well know in the Pro-audio world, but somehow here it seems to not be understood at all.
Basically any discussion of THD in loudspeakers or amps or anything is pointless as these numbers do not mean anything.
The bottom line is that it is the nature of the nonlinearity that matters NOT the THD level. Electronics crossover distortion can be audible at .01%, while loudspeakers can be inaudible at 15% - it all matters on the nature of the nonlinearity. Basically distortion in a loudspeaker can easily be made inaudible while in an amp it takes some work.
This is all well know in the Pro-audio world, but somehow here it seems to not be understood at all.
Sure, but we guys just enjoy buying sophisticated Junk with flawless unusefull pristine specs, Summas included...😀
We fine asnes would only use the very best!
Nonsense made up in neurotic imaginative minds with deep and obscure interests in audio questions, or pure illusion, feel free to make your own choice...😀
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