This might sound a bit like a dumb beginners question.
I now use Titebond PVA glue for building wooden boxes.
Of the three types which one would be the best to use as a paint on paper cone materials?
I've got a quad of really cheap paper coned woofers here for a proposed OB project and I want to play around with them but not completely ruin them by using an inappropriate glue.
I usually use ordinary cheap PVA diluted with water 2:2 and several coats, if I used the Titebond Ultra I think I'd only get a single coat on as it dries waterproof so was thinking 1:1
Thoughts?
I now use Titebond PVA glue for building wooden boxes.
Of the three types which one would be the best to use as a paint on paper cone materials?
I've got a quad of really cheap paper coned woofers here for a proposed OB project and I want to play around with them but not completely ruin them by using an inappropriate glue.
I usually use ordinary cheap PVA diluted with water 2:2 and several coats, if I used the Titebond Ultra I think I'd only get a single coat on as it dries waterproof so was thinking 1:1
Thoughts?
I've used Puzzle Coat, which is called Modge Podge now I believe. You thin it out a bit with water, works great on paper cones. You an get it at the craft store. No idea what you call it down under.
jeff
jeff
I used a watered down Selleys Aquadhere but it stiffened the cone. I had best results using Visaton LTS50 (water based) as the cone remains flexible and only provides damping and protection. I only apply 1 coat and then after dry smooth it out with a cloth with solvent. I used it on Revelator 18W8531 which required 1 coat and no smoothing whereas a SB15SFCR required smoothing. It's not expensive and available at Soundlabs.
It stores well as I've had a bottle for over a decade which I'm about to turf out with the left over speaker stuff.
It stores well as I've had a bottle for over a decade which I'm about to turf out with the left over speaker stuff.
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I would stick with mod podge. It has the best dampening characteristics of all the common available like substances and is well proven among speaker guys. The critical thing is not to water it down too much for use on thinner paper cones, since the excess water absorption can lead to the cone warping.
A good alternative to PVA is flowable silicone RTV used for windshield repair. It also has good dampening characteristics and has a decent amount of working time before curing. It can be lightly thinned with ethanol but applies really well right out of the tube with a brush. Its also slightly self leveling and can act as a good moisture barrier for water proofing. It doesnt soak into paper cones as much or add excess mass compared to most water based coatings. I like to use it for surround edge dampening treatment to tame the midrange response wiggle in most rubber surround drivers. It works well for applying to VC lead out wires, where they enter the back side of the cone, specifically on drivers with very light cones.
The smaller to medium fostex fullranges with regular cone profiles really benefit from a thin coat around the outer cone edge. This tames some of the roughness and breakup in the upper mids with very minimal drop in HF response. Eminence uses a lighter viscosity silicone impregnation on some necks of their larger cone drivers to improve top end rolloff by decoupling the outer cone diameter from higher frequencies. This comes from a very credible source.
A good alternative to PVA is flowable silicone RTV used for windshield repair. It also has good dampening characteristics and has a decent amount of working time before curing. It can be lightly thinned with ethanol but applies really well right out of the tube with a brush. Its also slightly self leveling and can act as a good moisture barrier for water proofing. It doesnt soak into paper cones as much or add excess mass compared to most water based coatings. I like to use it for surround edge dampening treatment to tame the midrange response wiggle in most rubber surround drivers. It works well for applying to VC lead out wires, where they enter the back side of the cone, specifically on drivers with very light cones.
The smaller to medium fostex fullranges with regular cone profiles really benefit from a thin coat around the outer cone edge. This tames some of the roughness and breakup in the upper mids with very minimal drop in HF response. Eminence uses a lighter viscosity silicone impregnation on some necks of their larger cone drivers to improve top end rolloff by decoupling the outer cone diameter from higher frequencies. This comes from a very credible source.
OK but these are big old paper coned 12" woofers that could do with some stiffening up and extra weight might lower the Fs a little.
rabbitz might remember the Jaycar OB woofers. I got them on clearance for $20- and they've sat there for half a half a dozen house moves and now they need using.
rabbitz might remember the Jaycar OB woofers. I got them on clearance for $20- and they've sat there for half a half a dozen house moves and now they need using.
What Jeff said. I have been using it for over 40 years with relly good results.
It dries ore flexible than Titebond. I use gloss but it comes in satin and flat as well.
On a FR i use as little as possible. For a woofer considerably more can be used. You have to use quite a bit to significantly push Fs down.
https://www.t-linespeakers.org/design/tweeks.html
dave
It dries ore flexible than Titebond. I use gloss but it comes in satin and flat as well.
On a FR i use as little as possible. For a woofer considerably more can be used. You have to use quite a bit to significantly push Fs down.
https://www.t-linespeakers.org/design/tweeks.html
dave
Isn't ModgePodge just PVA with a fancy name?
Previously I used diluted Selleys PVA wood glue which worked well; but I have 5 litre bottles of Titebond here and I'd rather use what I have rather than spend more
Previously I used diluted Selleys PVA wood glue which worked well; but I have 5 litre bottles of Titebond here and I'd rather use what I have rather than spend more
The formulation dries somewhat more flexible. It is PVA with a fancy name for a specific application. Making puzzles one piece after assembly.
dave
dave
Can someone provide us more insight into the coating to reduce distortion and smooth the high freuency (1khz) respnose of the driver.
Should we coat out side the edge of of the cone or inside. When coating , should the surrounding edge of the cone outside have a heavier coat than the internal edge ? so we can creat the mass damping effect focal woofers are using in their woofer edge
Should we coat out side the edge of of the cone or inside. When coating , should the surrounding edge of the cone outside have a heavier coat than the internal edge ? so we can creat the mass damping effect focal woofers are using in their woofer edge
Well if you're using the non- white titebond glue that is more yellowish in color, that is an aliphatic resin type wood glue that sets up much harder than a PVA based glue. It would definitely reinforce the cone considerably using an aliphatic resin glue, but it will also likely cause more sharper breakup resonances up higher. Another option is aquaplas.
I think I could put up with some higher frequency resonances as this experiment will be bi or tri-amped and cutting out at 300Hz or thereabouts.
I have a spare Rotel multi-channel amp here, 40 W per channel and that will be enough to drive these woofers to X-max in OB.
Time to put the thought experiment into a baffle and have a listen
I have a spare Rotel multi-channel amp here, 40 W per channel and that will be enough to drive these woofers to X-max in OB.
Time to put the thought experiment into a baffle and have a listen
Elmer's school glue is basically also PVA glue.
It works for gluing up wood, drying time is ages though.
Mod Podge is a bit more flexible as well as dries MUCH quicker compared to wood glue or Titebond.
Also available in mat.
Another idea is to use liquid rubber or latex instead.
It does go off very quickly. When i a doing a cone it has to be done quickly as you do not want the first parts to be drying while you ar estill applying elsewhere.
You can even get it with sparkles.
dave
The sparkles would be great for a hello kitty or my little pony themed OB build. Maybe it can make K pop sound better too...
Seriously, the mod podge stuff is designed to dry fast compared to anything like it. Thats why I like to thin it a little for more working time between coats. Here in the dry heat that stuff will set between dipping the brush and getting a few revolutions around the cone. It does work best for surrounds though, but i like the flowable silicone for that mainly for its water proof properties. If you wet PVA again, it gets cloudy and stickier, not so good for cleaning the cone afterwards.
Seriously, the mod podge stuff is designed to dry fast compared to anything like it. Thats why I like to thin it a little for more working time between coats. Here in the dry heat that stuff will set between dipping the brush and getting a few revolutions around the cone. It does work best for surrounds though, but i like the flowable silicone for that mainly for its water proof properties. If you wet PVA again, it gets cloudy and stickier, not so good for cleaning the cone afterwards.
This interests me as I have a number of speakers that live out in the weather for a good part of the year. Some are not weatherized. A good waterproofing for paper woofer cones would be valuable to me.
So I'm guessing that the waterproof aliphatic compound Titebond I can only make one single pass?
If that's so how dilute do I make it?
1:1?
If that's so how dilute do I make it?
1:1?
If you dilute 1:1 you will warp the cone. That’s way too wet. Try 10% to start and up it to max 25% is my guess.