Hi all
i am ready to build my next project. My preferences and goals:
- clear Warm sound rather than analytical
- Clear bass rather than lowest notes
- smooth trebble with low sibilance
- small to medium room size
- range of music mainly light rock, jazz and classical (orchestral mainly)
- Needs to work with 15W valve amp per channel
- other components are 'warm' Rega CD, Heybrook turntable
- not to big!
My choices:
1. AudioNote speaker 2 kit. Nice wide baffle, easy to construct, musical speaker with good reviews across a broad range of listeners, good mate with valve amps.
2. joe Rasmussens "elsinore project". Local (Australian) based support, big scale, relatively simple build, small footprint, easy amplifer load, good economy
3. Troels Gravesen 'poor mans stradavari". Wide baffle reasonable mate to valve amps, harder construction but high WAF, well reviewed, listening notes indicate a clear presentation without being too clinical.
SO which one would you choose and why? I am at the crossroads and could happily build all three.
Interested in your views. Thanks Adam
i am ready to build my next project. My preferences and goals:
- clear Warm sound rather than analytical
- Clear bass rather than lowest notes
- smooth trebble with low sibilance
- small to medium room size
- range of music mainly light rock, jazz and classical (orchestral mainly)
- Needs to work with 15W valve amp per channel
- other components are 'warm' Rega CD, Heybrook turntable
- not to big!
My choices:
1. AudioNote speaker 2 kit. Nice wide baffle, easy to construct, musical speaker with good reviews across a broad range of listeners, good mate with valve amps.
2. joe Rasmussens "elsinore project". Local (Australian) based support, big scale, relatively simple build, small footprint, easy amplifer load, good economy
3. Troels Gravesen 'poor mans stradavari". Wide baffle reasonable mate to valve amps, harder construction but high WAF, well reviewed, listening notes indicate a clear presentation without being too clinical.
SO which one would you choose and why? I am at the crossroads and could happily build all three.
Interested in your views. Thanks Adam
Tough choices 🙄 and I will throw in a couple more to make it even harder 😀
http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/JA8008.htm
http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/AT-R.htm
http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/JA8008.htm
http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/AT-R.htm
Troel's AT-R is probably too inefficient for valve amplifiers at 87 dB.
I have always fancied the PMS.
I have always fancied the PMS.
Elsinore is just adequate for for a 15watt amp, there is really not much headroom to play with. More headroom gives you bigger soundstage and bass response. Just my opinion.
I believe you need a more effcient speakers than 89-90db speakers, say 92-95db.
I believe you need a more effcient speakers than 89-90db speakers, say 92-95db.
What about Appella Next? Troels tested with 6W tube and was surprised by it. http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/AcapellaNEXT.htm
Another vendor is pispekers. Wayne's kit are all high efficiency with various driver option. He is the only vendor that share his production design with DIYer. A very kind person. Just ask him though his forum.
http://www.pispeakers.com/catalog/default.php/cPath/3
Another vendor is pispekers. Wayne's kit are all high efficiency with various driver option. He is the only vendor that share his production design with DIYer. A very kind person. Just ask him though his forum.
http://www.pispeakers.com/catalog/default.php/cPath/3
Project loudspeakers-can of worms
This is in response to the chap looking to design/build a speakers system that will satisfy his modest demands. Many good models out there, used, already all the warts removed, and you can find something you like for cheap.
If you are after something for valves (we call 'em tubes), go for high efficiency, and Polk and Klipsch come to mind. You want something that will play with little power and will not drive your amp into clipping, even if you like it louder once in a while.
As to 'rolling your own', I can tell you from first-hand experience that there is a high likelyhood that you will be disappointed, regardless of whose design you choose or the the drivers selected. Best route: listen to as many different loudspeakers as you can, and write down what you like, and what does not sound good to you. Try to figure out why. If you are fortunate enough to come across something that just sounds wonderful, regardless of cost, that will be your target. You really can remember what you heard and what you like. You have to compare apples to apples, so drive all the designs with your amp.
You will spend time, but not money on this quest, and you will find what you are seeking. Don't be taken in by other's opinions or the supposed 'reputation' the product has. Those two cartiilege extensions on your head are different from everyone else's.
This is in response to the chap looking to design/build a speakers system that will satisfy his modest demands. Many good models out there, used, already all the warts removed, and you can find something you like for cheap.
If you are after something for valves (we call 'em tubes), go for high efficiency, and Polk and Klipsch come to mind. You want something that will play with little power and will not drive your amp into clipping, even if you like it louder once in a while.
As to 'rolling your own', I can tell you from first-hand experience that there is a high likelyhood that you will be disappointed, regardless of whose design you choose or the the drivers selected. Best route: listen to as many different loudspeakers as you can, and write down what you like, and what does not sound good to you. Try to figure out why. If you are fortunate enough to come across something that just sounds wonderful, regardless of cost, that will be your target. You really can remember what you heard and what you like. You have to compare apples to apples, so drive all the designs with your amp.
You will spend time, but not money on this quest, and you will find what you are seeking. Don't be taken in by other's opinions or the supposed 'reputation' the product has. Those two cartiilege extensions on your head are different from everyone else's.
Probably in my order of preference....
1: PMS. I like wide baffle designs and it seems well thought out.
2: Elsinore. More expensive.
3: AN. Never heard anything of theirs I liked. One of the factory units I heard at a store a while back was awful.
None have my idea of efficiency though.
Fourth (and best) option: Ariels. Wonderful design, not as hard to build as they look, small footprint, reasonable efficiency. You'll have to source the drivers as NOS or secondhand for the P13's (but I know where there are some) but these are some of the best dynamic speakers I've heard. Able to startle with excellent transient response, clarity and a sense of correctness. A ggod sub, say a pair of Joe's critical Q designs would round these out perfectly.
1: PMS. I like wide baffle designs and it seems well thought out.
2: Elsinore. More expensive.
3: AN. Never heard anything of theirs I liked. One of the factory units I heard at a store a while back was awful.
None have my idea of efficiency though.
Fourth (and best) option: Ariels. Wonderful design, not as hard to build as they look, small footprint, reasonable efficiency. You'll have to source the drivers as NOS or secondhand for the P13's (but I know where there are some) but these are some of the best dynamic speakers I've heard. Able to startle with excellent transient response, clarity and a sense of correctness. A ggod sub, say a pair of Joe's critical Q designs would round these out perfectly.
At the beginning of this page of Troels site there are some reliable thoughts/studies about the AN speaker:
http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/HES_II.htm
http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/HES_II.htm
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