I recently bought a Metaxas Audio Systems Marquis mk III pre amp. As I also have the Marquise mk I, I opened up both to see what changes have been made.
The topology hasn't changed a bit, but the parts that are used are a little bit different.
For example the mk I has a blue alps potentiometer for balance, whereas the mk III has an open type one.
The mk I uses VIMA capacitors, and the mk III has those tall transparent ones.
The mk I uses those big gold 105'C caps - mk III has some smallish ones.
Don't you think that the parts quality, instead of improving, has deteriorated here ?
The topology hasn't changed a bit, but the parts that are used are a little bit different.
For example the mk I has a blue alps potentiometer for balance, whereas the mk III has an open type one.
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An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
The mk I uses VIMA capacitors, and the mk III has those tall transparent ones.
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The mk I uses those big gold 105'C caps - mk III has some smallish ones.
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An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Don't you think that the parts quality, instead of improving, has deteriorated here ?
I wouldn't worry much about parts choices. Sometimes, seemingly inferior part may actually be better soundwise.
Just listen to both preamps and decide which one sounds better😉
Just listen to both preamps and decide which one sounds better😉
On the surface it looks like that may be the case, but I don't think that you can make a firm conclusion without more info.
First what do you mean by quality? Are you thinking of sonic quality alone or does MTBF come into play? Maybe there is a trade-off that the manufacturer has to make. After all what if you were had to choose between the best sounding unit ever made but which has a 20% probability of dying during the first 90 days vs. one that doesn't sound quite as flawless but will still be ticking when your grangchildren inherit it? From a manufacture's pont of view quality includes whether or not the supplier delivers on time and within spec.
The pot: the newonw doesn't look as nice but there are some excellent pots that look just like some so-so ones. Who makes this one and what's the model number.
Big caps vs. little caps: Do you know their function. The values on the larger ones suggest they are PS filter caps. 8800uF is quite a bit of capacity for a preamp power supply; perhaps there has a change in recifiers such that the large caps have become redundant.
Old red caps vs funny looking cylinders: The funny looking cylinders are .1uF 50V caps. About right to be bypassing the what looks likec an opamp they are next to. So long as the vlue is accurateI casn't think of any reason for one versus the other except cost and reliability. So who knows. . . .
First what do you mean by quality? Are you thinking of sonic quality alone or does MTBF come into play? Maybe there is a trade-off that the manufacturer has to make. After all what if you were had to choose between the best sounding unit ever made but which has a 20% probability of dying during the first 90 days vs. one that doesn't sound quite as flawless but will still be ticking when your grangchildren inherit it? From a manufacture's pont of view quality includes whether or not the supplier delivers on time and within spec.
The pot: the newonw doesn't look as nice but there are some excellent pots that look just like some so-so ones. Who makes this one and what's the model number.
Big caps vs. little caps: Do you know their function. The values on the larger ones suggest they are PS filter caps. 8800uF is quite a bit of capacity for a preamp power supply; perhaps there has a change in recifiers such that the large caps have become redundant.
Old red caps vs funny looking cylinders: The funny looking cylinders are .1uF 50V caps. About right to be bypassing the what looks likec an opamp they are next to. So long as the vlue is accurateI casn't think of any reason for one versus the other except cost and reliability. So who knows. . . .
sam9 said:
Although I get your point on the quality vs relaiability issue, no one can doubt in the quality of ALPS potentiometers and VIMA caps.
The open pot is also an alps.
If you ask German audiophiles, Wimas are not regarded as quality caps. Those polystyrene ones migh be actually better😉
As to the balance pot, they might have had a problem with sourcing blue Alps any longer, that's why they switched.
Smaller caps seem to be completely different, who knows, maybe they sound better in that location?
As to the balance pot, they might have had a problem with sourcing blue Alps any longer, that's why they switched.
Smaller caps seem to be completely different, who knows, maybe they sound better in that location?
The cheap lopoking balance pot might also be one of the units that has a 'zero' point at the center detent, wher it is not engaged in the circuit at all. Just a thought.. As for the PS op-amp buffers.. well.... better than the wima's, yes. The old gold ROE caps are good. Why they are switched out with cheapo 300uf or so phillips is beyond me. perhaps better regulation and lowered rectification noise has been achieved. Brighter isn't always better......
But really, we are all just being kind about the pot and the caps. The truth is that generally,the carbon pot is a step down..and the loss of the ROE caps is not a good thing.
We know these statements are exactly right..but..we cannot help but give the benifit of the doubt as we don't actually have both units in front of us.
But really, we are all just being kind about the pot and the caps. The truth is that generally,the carbon pot is a step down..and the loss of the ROE caps is not a good thing.
We know these statements are exactly right..but..we cannot help but give the benifit of the doubt as we don't actually have both units in front of us.
Elberoth said:
Hi helberot!!
I resume it in two words...time of crisis...and the manufacturers have to do some cuts...
Now...just a thougth!!!...In this time of WWW Net...the life is not so easy anymore for the high end manufacturers...😉
And Portuguese proverb:
"You can to foll some people...for some time...but you can not foll ,all the people for all the time..."
These goldish caps did we use at work in industrial environment and the lifetime wasn't too good. Not very high performing in industrial applications. We have stopped using them long time ago, since 15 years....Elberoth said:
Re: Re: Which of those preamps has a better parts quality ?
does it really matter high/low quality parts they use? as long as the sound quality is there.
I remember people peddling gold stickers and claiming that they improve engine horse power, 🙂
this "gold" cap thing is probably similar.
does it really matter high/low quality parts they use? as long as the sound quality is there.
peranders said:
I remember people peddling gold stickers and claiming that they improve engine horse power, 🙂
this "gold" cap thing is probably similar.
Re: Re: Re: Which of those preamps has a better parts quality ?
Yes!!...lets wait from some news about the sound quality diferences...
HI Elberoth...we are all ears!!!😉
PS:but in the last pic...the capacitors look like a little Liliputians!!
Maybe one more thing ,where, some say the size doesn't matter!😀
millwood said:
Yes!!...lets wait from some news about the sound quality diferences...
HI Elberoth...we are all ears!!!😉
PS:but in the last pic...the capacitors look like a little Liliputians!!
Maybe one more thing ,where, some say the size doesn't matter!😀
Re: Re: Which of those preamps has a better parts quality ?
Portuguese proverb my @rse, that's a Bob Marley lryic! 😀Tube_Dude said:
Re: Re: Re: Which of those preamps has a better parts quality ?
You look like to be an expert in Portuguese proverbs...😉
SimontY said:
You look like to be an expert in Portuguese proverbs...😉
Re: Re: Re: Re: Which of those preamps has a better parts quality ?
Didn't Bob Marley lift that line from Mark Twain?
Tube_Dude said:
Didn't Bob Marley lift that line from Mark Twain?
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Which of those preamps has a better parts quality ?
Well ...who appear first...the egg or the chiken?? 🙂
The universal culture just to nowdays have soufered many influences from culture to culture...for intance there are streets in Italy with portuguese names...
So If the sentence are also said by Mark Twain...Bob Marley...doen't mean that it is not used in Portugal as a very old proverb..
PS: In Portugal usually we utilize this proverbs when we talk of the local politcs...😉
BobEllis said:
Well ...who appear first...the egg or the chiken?? 🙂
The universal culture just to nowdays have soufered many influences from culture to culture...for intance there are streets in Italy with portuguese names...
So If the sentence are also said by Mark Twain...Bob Marley...doen't mean that it is not used in Portugal as a very old proverb..
PS: In Portugal usually we utilize this proverbs when we talk of the local politcs...😉
I see simple cost-cutting on those photos
Anyway, higher costs just by itself doesn't mean higher fidelity [sometimes mean nothing but more money spent] and I'm sure the manufacturer knows this fact very well ... 😀
Anyway, higher costs just by itself doesn't mean higher fidelity [sometimes mean nothing but more money spent] and I'm sure the manufacturer knows this fact very well ... 😀
Elberoth said:
Hi Sam9,
To me the second picture looks like a "repaired" amplifier. The open pot with the brown pertinax PCB is [b[very[/b] cheap.
Those tranparant caps look like polystyrenes. Depends on taste if like these or the Wima's.😉
"Those tranparant caps look like polystyrenes. Depends on taste if like these or the Wima's."
What do they taste like? 😕
I am extremly amuse by all this. No body seems concerned that All The
Component Values Are different Including The Pot! It seems that some parts were not populated on one PCB that were on the other. What are you comparing?
One of these things is not like the other,
One of these things doesn't belong,
Can you tell which thing is not like the other,
Before I finish this song?
What do they taste like? 😕
I am extremly amuse by all this. No body seems concerned that All The
Component Values Are different Including The Pot! It seems that some parts were not populated on one PCB that were on the other. What are you comparing?
One of these things is not like the other,
One of these things doesn't belong,
Can you tell which thing is not like the other,
Before I finish this song?
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