Personally I am a fan of Schaffner or Schurter line filters. There are absolutely loads available depending on what your needs are.
Generally I tend double the line filters current handling capacity to what i actually need. Shop wisely though and be sure to read the PDF spec. sheets to make sure that the attenuation is where you want it.
Lots, if not all, line filters of the IEC type (at least) don't have steady 6dB or 12 dB type slopes that you would find in a speaker crossover for example. Some have peaks and troughs all over the place and yoyu can get medical grade too but i tend to steer clear of those. So, please read the PDF's.
Alternatively...build your own. Not at all difficult, although you are playing with mains voltage and an incorrectly wired circuit WILL kill if that magentic field collapses into you.
I am an Electrician so I would recommend you buy one and then maybe in time amd with enough knowledge and confidence have a go at building one to your own spec. MAINS ELECTRIC KILLS though, ok!
Don't let me scare you but I would rather you actually get to hear the results of your labour, honestly
Gareth
Generally I tend double the line filters current handling capacity to what i actually need. Shop wisely though and be sure to read the PDF spec. sheets to make sure that the attenuation is where you want it.
Lots, if not all, line filters of the IEC type (at least) don't have steady 6dB or 12 dB type slopes that you would find in a speaker crossover for example. Some have peaks and troughs all over the place and yoyu can get medical grade too but i tend to steer clear of those. So, please read the PDF's.
Alternatively...build your own. Not at all difficult, although you are playing with mains voltage and an incorrectly wired circuit WILL kill if that magentic field collapses into you.
I am an Electrician so I would recommend you buy one and then maybe in time amd with enough knowledge and confidence have a go at building one to your own spec. MAINS ELECTRIC KILLS though, ok!
Don't let me scare you but I would rather you actually get to hear the results of your labour, honestly
Gareth
To be quite truthfull though, it sounds as if you need your electrics checked.
Clicks and pops and bangs manifesting themselves through your speaker can be a number of problems. Proximity of differing voltage cables....is the offending light using it's own lighting ballast....it could be a number of things.
A filter may only serve to hide a problem that could in the long run be 'detrimental to the cause', so to speak.
Gareth
P.S. Sorry if I sound contradictory between my last two posts but it's better to be safe than sorry! Shame your in Oz, I could have nipped over and taken a look
Clicks and pops and bangs manifesting themselves through your speaker can be a number of problems. Proximity of differing voltage cables....is the offending light using it's own lighting ballast....it could be a number of things.
A filter may only serve to hide a problem that could in the long run be 'detrimental to the cause', so to speak.
Gareth
P.S. Sorry if I sound contradictory between my last two posts but it's better to be safe than sorry! Shame your in Oz, I could have nipped over and taken a look
panson_hk said:
Oh yes EI ... you want to minimize the stray interwinding capacitance, the best way is physically seperating the windings to begin with ie split bobbin. The farady shield is not the best way to limit the effect after the fact.
edit> Leakage inductance is higher, but that can useful in transverse filtering on the secondary.
If it were my problem I would use a big snubber accross the lamp/heater switch. Only If that switch is located on the lamp/heater itself, if not (wall switch) then would mostably be a big safety/ no-no for you.
Snubber = 100 ohm 1/2 watt + 0.47uF X cap ie safety rated for 240VAC line-line duty.
Snubber = 100 ohm 1/2 watt + 0.47uF X cap ie safety rated for 240VAC line-line duty.
You could try listening to music with the lights off.
I find it strange that switching on low power device such a light bulb on a different power circuit ( power and light are always separate )
can cause that much interference in an amp. Maybe the people that made the amp used a sub-standard power supply, such as a small switch mode supply. What brand is it?
Al
I find it strange that switching on low power device such a light bulb on a different power circuit ( power and light are always separate )
can cause that much interference in an amp. Maybe the people that made the amp used a sub-standard power supply, such as a small switch mode supply. What brand is it?
Al
Hi Al,
The speakers are Event Opals. Manufacturer says no other reports of similar problems. http://event1.com/
Other amps and speakers exhibit the same problem but to a far lesser degree.
The light is a bulb on a stand plugged into a power point.
Cheers
Stuart
The speakers are Event Opals. Manufacturer says no other reports of similar problems. http://event1.com/
Other amps and speakers exhibit the same problem but to a far lesser degree.
The light is a bulb on a stand plugged into a power point.
Cheers
Stuart
BigGayAl said:
This is my first post so I hope it makes sense. A bit more detective work is needed. If the problem is RF noise from the lamp then the distance from the lamp to your system will have some effect, the further away the less effect ie noise on your system. That's if its RF radiated through the air. While some RF noise is present on all AC home supplies the power supplies of your equipment which turn AC to DC should remove most of it. I have installed a line filter from Jaycar on a CD player and it was an improvement in sound quality and relatively cheap. But as it involves 240volt and is dangerous for DIY, I would get an electrician or electronics tech who can put one in and test easily and should not cost much. I would put one on your tuner as well but not your power amp as they are only rated at 6 amps. This might help with the thump from the switch but will also take any other noise on your AC out.
The fact your new speakers make the sound louder is that the are more sensitve. They are not the source of the sound, it either starts in your CD or Tuner or your amp and is passed on to the speakers.
I do not think an Isolation transformer would work as it already makes it through the transformers in your equipment. The UPS I am not certain on but unless it constaintly converts ac to dc to ac will not work. You first need to know how the sound gets into your audio system before you can solve the problem. By the way you have tried other amps and speakers have you tried another lamp, lamps are a lot cheaper than amps? Hope this helps
The fact your new speakers make the sound louder is that the are more sensitve. They are not the source of the sound, it either starts in your CD or Tuner or your amp and is passed on to the speakers.
I do not think an Isolation transformer would work as it already makes it through the transformers in your equipment. The UPS I am not certain on but unless it constaintly converts ac to dc to ac will not work. You first need to know how the sound gets into your audio system before you can solve the problem. By the way you have tried other amps and speakers have you tried another lamp, lamps are a lot cheaper than amps? Hope this helps
Andrew,
Are you going to make a habit of asking questions you obviously know the answers to?
Differential mode chokes typically have 2 leads. Common mode chokes, single and split phase, have 4 leads. Use the appropriately named choke as appropriate, although I use CMCs with a whole bunch of leakage inductance which works a treat on transverse mode noise.....
You obviously know where to place the cap(s) to increase the order and efficacy of these low pass filters. If you don't, I could give you some suggestions where you could stick them.
FWIW,
Paul
Are you going to make a habit of asking questions you obviously know the answers to?
Differential mode chokes typically have 2 leads. Common mode chokes, single and split phase, have 4 leads. Use the appropriately named choke as appropriate, although I use CMCs with a whole bunch of leakage inductance which works a treat on transverse mode noise.....
You obviously know where to place the cap(s) to increase the order and efficacy of these low pass filters. If you don't, I could give you some suggestions where you could stick them.
FWIW,
Paul
that implies I am setting a trick question or that I am trying to catch out the responder. That is unfair.pmkap said:
I really am asking what's the difference and when does each get used.
Finally what do they look like.
BTW,
I have seen pics of the two types of ferrite toroids. They look very similar and all have 4leadouts.
However, if I want others to recognise these differences/characteristics, then I have two choices:
describe them myself (impossible in this case)
or
ask an expert to describe them for the rest of us (me included).
I do hope this statement is not an attempt to get your post reported/sent to Texas/get you suspended.
Andrew,
If you look at the 2 toroid in the link you have provided with the elargement capability provided (put your cursor over the image), you'll note that the choke on the left, although it is mounted in a 4 pin header, only has 2 pins connected and is therefore a differential/transverse mode choke.
The choke on the right has 2 (visually) equal coils with all 4 header pins connected, and is a CMC choke.
Hope this helps,
Paul
If you look at the 2 toroid in the link you have provided with the elargement capability provided (put your cursor over the image), you'll note that the choke on the left, although it is mounted in a 4 pin header, only has 2 pins connected and is therefore a differential/transverse mode choke.
The choke on the right has 2 (visually) equal coils with all 4 header pins connected, and is a CMC choke.
Hope this helps,
Paul
Re: filter inductors
A differential mode inductor is just a normal inductor. There may be two such inductors together, but the windings are not coupled together like a common mode inductor.
If you can't tell which is which from the construction, then measure the inductance with a differential mode signal - a common mode inductor will have an inductance of 0, while a differential mode inductor will have some inductance.
Common mode inductors have two windings on one core, arranged so that the magnetic fields due to a differential mode current cancel each other out, so it only impedes common mode currents.AndrewT said:
A differential mode inductor is just a normal inductor. There may be two such inductors together, but the windings are not coupled together like a common mode inductor.
If you can't tell which is which from the construction, then measure the inductance with a differential mode signal - a common mode inductor will have an inductance of 0, while a differential mode inductor will have some inductance.
I think this thread is rapidly drifting OT. OP has stated he isn't DIY inclined, so don't design a filter for him here. If you have a solution that can be plug and play is IMO what he wants/
edit>At the risk of sounding like a broken record, line conditioning may not even be a solution for him.
edit>At the risk of sounding like a broken record, line conditioning may not even be a solution for him.
This is mostly correct. Most cheap consummer level UPS are just a pass through and do about the same thing that a $20 "surge protector" does until the power fails then they switch over quickly to battery power.
But there are more expensive UPS, much more expensive, that first convert the AC mains to DC then convert that back to AC and have a large battery connected in parallel to the DC.
You can make a pretty decent AC isolation transformer by connecting the secondaries of two identical 12 volt transformers back to back (through a fuse)
All that said, don't go spending $$ in a fix until you know the problem. Is the noise high freq. or low. In general high freq. is cheap and easy to fix.
My bet is that the best and lowest price "fix" will be to hire a local electrician to install a new outlet that is on it's own new circuit breaker. Have him put on a new 20A outlet and use it just for your audio gear and nothing else.
After everyone's comments, I might just get zein with it and ditch the light (the primary but not sole noise source). I can't DIY and I don't want to invest in infrastructure stuck to the house that can't accompany me to my next abode.
I'm curious why infinia suggests extreme iso transformer as opposed to a UPS that pass AC to DC to AC. Both are at significant cost, but the UPS has the extra advantage of a battery which can temprarily power a computer when there is a poewr failure (all other things being equal this extra feature would be nice to have if it doesn't cost me anything in terms of money or sonic purity which from a casual read of the virtues ot would not appear to).
Am I missing something?
Also, given an appliance eg. a computer with a 500W power supply or a speaker with amplifier that is 500w rms how do I determine the va rating required (for either ups or transformer)?
Might be worth investing in one of these and keep it for the next 20 years. Would be good to be able to plug in 2 speakers plus + computer and maybe a TV. Then the investment would be worth it.
If that's infeasible I'll probably just forget about it at least for the time being.
Thanks for all the help everyone.
I'm curious why infinia suggests extreme iso transformer as opposed to a UPS that pass AC to DC to AC. Both are at significant cost, but the UPS has the extra advantage of a battery which can temprarily power a computer when there is a poewr failure (all other things being equal this extra feature would be nice to have if it doesn't cost me anything in terms of money or sonic purity which from a casual read of the virtues ot would not appear to).
Am I missing something?
Also, given an appliance eg. a computer with a 500W power supply or a speaker with amplifier that is 500w rms how do I determine the va rating required (for either ups or transformer)?
Might be worth investing in one of these and keep it for the next 20 years. Would be good to be able to plug in 2 speakers plus + computer and maybe a TV. Then the investment would be worth it.
If that's infeasible I'll probably just forget about it at least for the time being.
Thanks for all the help everyone.
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