Which digital filter to use ?

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Disabled Account
Joined 2002
After Non OS experiments I would like to make a DAC with CS8412, AD1865N-K or TDA5141-S1 ( Have both, I can choose ) and a digital filter. Any tips are welcome.

Just for curiousity: does anybody have any idea how a four fold or two fold oversampling DAC with a good converter can sound ?

Since I am not kean on SMD I am to use new or old DIP types.
I know that the word SAA7220 is enough for some people to start having strange feelings in their stomach...

I have a low cost SM5807, one SM5813 and several new PD0050's. The last one is a Pioneer 20 bit digital filter which in its time was supposed to be good. I can't find any documentation on the PD0050. :xeye:
Does anybody know who made these Pioneer chips ? Or where to find datasheets ? I googled a lot but found nothing.
And are these chips to be taken serious nowadays ?

Or which new type can I use ?
Disabled Account
Joined 2002
OK, to be clear:

I am planning to use AD1865, second choice TDA1541, thus 18 or 16 bits. Thus I2S or serial, depends on the DAC.Four or eight times oversampling. Only R2R.
IMHO 1 bit converters are inferior.

Well, I can make it clearer::wiz:

AD1865, 18 bit, 8 times oversampling. It is the first time I want to use the AD1865. Not sure about the 8 times oversampling. Will look into the datasheet later.
Disabled Account
Joined 2002
I have one SM5813 which may be suitable for the job. Its aged though and there might be a modern chip that's better.

AD1892 is a digital receiver and sample rate convertor. It isn't a digital filter for as far as I know.

Why 20 or 24 bit ? Please explain Jocko. Until now I had very good results with 16/18 bit. None of the nowadays produced 24 bit cdplayers that I have heard ( please read carefully ) sound natural to me. And I don't even want to talk about DVD players...
Is the Pioneer the one with some euphamistic name
that supposedly warms up the sound by folding spurious
junk back into the passband. "Legato Link" I believe
is what they call it. Highly talked up by the Stereophile
crowd, but blatently stupid engineering and rated as
not at all good by ears I respect.

One can argue various topologies, makes, models,
but doing things obviously wrong is not the way to
good sound.

As to SMT, you'd better learn to deal with it as
through-hole ICs are going away. Just hope you
can get some manageable package like SOIC, and
not something even smaller.
Why 20 or 24 bit?

I've built many. They sound excellent. At least the people who send me their players and money seem to think so.

Peter Daniel......(on another er, ah, thread, if you can call it that.......) mentions that he uses the Burr-Brown '1704 chips too.

Modern 24 bit DACs don't sound as good? Quite the opposite by my experience! My new Sony DVD player (gasp!) sounds excellent with it's AKM DACs, and some analog stage modifications (these are key to making most consumer grade equipment listenable!). Anyway, I think for cheap you can build a very nice DAC based on something like CS43122 and do a proper comparison for yourself, not based on crappy cd player designs. I find the modern DACs sounding better and better, and 24 bit is really nice, especially for playback of PCM 24/96 recordings (of course).

With a good oversampling digital filter, you can get 24 bit samples out of 16 bit CD input, and to make utilization of this, a 24 bit DAC makes sense.

As for SMD, I think a lot of people are scared to try this technology since it seems so intimidating. And, like anything, if you try to use it with the wrong tools or techniques, it can of course be very frustrating, and this has led many to make unfavorable statements about SMD. But, I think if you have a look at my page about SMD rework in the Wiki, you'll find out that SMD can actually be much easier than through-hole. All you need is a steady hand and some simple tools. Very easy, you'll see!

I know you'll be skeptical, but it's actually easier to wire something like this crazy looking SMD circuit than it would be to make the equivalent through-hole, P2P wired ciruit! Like I said, the key is using the right tools (not expensive) and technique. Otherwise you'll have a miserable time with it.

I borrowed this image from http://elm-chan.org/docs/wiring_e.html.


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I like the PM filters too, though they're not readily available to the DIYer...

you wouldn't happen to know any of the personalities behind the Pacific Microsonics designs, would you? I'd be interested to see where the Talent goes, if it doesn't stay with MS...

For that matter, this reminds me of the recently discussed absorption of BB by TI, and the likelyhood that BB will fade into obscurity. :( You never know though, sometimes the talent stays in-house, and gets localized to one product division. Sometimes, the talent migrates en masse to a new company... and in some sad instances it just disperses.
Disabled Account
Joined 2002
I don't see the point of moving over to 24 bit designs as I've heard 18 bit multibit DAC sound better than them.
I mean, the result is what counts aint it ? Otherwise I wouldn't even have thought about building Non OS DAC's. I am open for any topology but for 1 bit/mash/Sigma Delta. They are a disappointment in general.( although I liked the PCM1710 ).
Reason for using DF1704 and PCM 1704 is because they are readily available and very very good.

But I don't care since I have made the decision to use AD1865 and the topic is : which digital filter to use ? ( with AD8165 that is ). Reason for using the AD1865 is the quality of it that is said to be better than most others. Audio Note uses it in the DAC 1.2 as well. It caught my curiousity so to speak.

Same as talking about Zen and someone tells you to build a P3A.

BrainL: PD0050 is not Legato Link, this is an older chip. I know Legato Link and it stinks.

HiFiZen: quote: As for SMD, I think a lot of people are scared to try this technology since it seems so intimidating." unquote.

Not for me, I just don't like SMD. I am able to work with them but I prefer Through Hole devices. Like liking apples over oranges...
Or tubes over transistors...
Disabled Account
Joined 2002
No, just curiousity for the AD1865. OS, non OS, transistors, tubes,BJT, MOSFets, expensive or cheap I don't care as long as it sounds good.

Non OS is OK, but OS can be OK or even better too. It is different and you should build one yourself if your interested. The Mini DAC from Richard Murdey, Thorsten Loesch and Scott Nixon ( among others ) is a very nice and cheap way discovering Non OS DAC sound. It is based around a CS8412 and a TDA1543. Building costs around 70 Euro !!!

I tend not to focus myself on one proven technology / topology.
Makes it easier to adapt to other things.

I made simple and compact DAC with PD0050 a while ago. It uses DIR9001 as a receiver, PD0050 DF and AD1868 DAC chip. Planned to use it with STB receiver. The basic idea was to use 3.5" hdd box as enclosure and power dac from single cheap 9-12v wall plug power adapter.
DAC works wery well. Own DAC noise is very low due to separation ground planes on the bottom side of the pcb and use separate power regulators for analog and digital parts.
PD0050 doesn't seem to be very good filter, CXD1244 sounds smouthly and precisely (imho). But using it with R-2R DAC chip it sounds better than most sigma-delta DACs.


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