Chris, I'm not making the argument, only stating the ease with which I could lean that way. I'm in complete agreement with your assessment.
More generally, my point is that care should be heeded in, for example, these comments such as "imperfect systems" (aren't they all?) and subtle ad hominem.
More generally, my point is that care should be heeded in, for example, these comments such as "imperfect systems" (aren't they all?) and subtle ad hominem.
Hi sofaspud,
No problem, and no disagreement from me. I was responding to infinia.
-Chris
No problem, and no disagreement from me. I was responding to infinia.
From a guy whose life's work has generally been to correct defects, how could I possibly disagree with your statement? I will say that these days, and more so in the future, we are lucky to have the high resolution we currently enjoy with our home sound systems. (he says as he works on another tube amp)
-Chris
There are guys on this forum that hear a difference in speaker wires and those that hear a difference when changing caps and those that hear a difference between power supplies. Some get 30HZ from a $10 3 inch speaker and others can hear digital noise on CD's.
Fortunately I do not need to listen that hard to enjoy music.
Fortunately I do not need to listen that hard to enjoy music.
If only it wasn't so (the assertion of audibility from members who think they wear their blue underpants on the outside).
Amen (from a strictly secular viewpoint).
I would also weight speakers and room heavily, with the source player third. But the weakest link in my experience is the lack of sufficient dynamic headroom available in the system above the average listening level.
100% is the intent of the listener when listening to his hifi system and or/ what drugs he is on.
let me tell you that you have never heard your system until you are high off mescaline or shrooms or both (they combine very well 🙂 )
more seriously id say that the room and speakers is 90%. id pick a less then stellar speaker in a good room over the good speaker into a bad room.
the room is at least as important then the speakers. if your staisfied with your speakers and system, wait until you treat your room adequately. your in for a shick
when I finally treated my room, I was kicking myself for having waited so long.
source and amps last 10%
let me tell you that you have never heard your system until you are high off mescaline or shrooms or both (they combine very well 🙂 )
more seriously id say that the room and speakers is 90%. id pick a less then stellar speaker in a good room over the good speaker into a bad room.
the room is at least as important then the speakers. if your staisfied with your speakers and system, wait until you treat your room adequately. your in for a shick
when I finally treated my room, I was kicking myself for having waited so long.
source and amps last 10%
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yup, it takes a lot of training, talent and invested $ to listen so hard and enjoy the music so little
SPEAKERS : 30%
SOURCE (RECORDING) : 10%
ROOM (ACOUSTIC) : 15%
SOURCE (PLAYER) : 15%
AMPLIFICATION : 15%
PRE-AMPLIFICATION : 15%
SOURCE (MEDIA): 0%
ELECTRICAL SYSTEM : 0%
CABLES (SIGNAL/SPEAKERS) : 0%
CABLES (POWER) : 0%
SOURCE (RECORDING) : 10%
ROOM (ACOUSTIC) : 15%
SOURCE (PLAYER) : 15%
AMPLIFICATION : 15%
PRE-AMPLIFICATION : 15%
SOURCE (MEDIA): 0%
ELECTRICAL SYSTEM : 0%
CABLES (SIGNAL/SPEAKERS) : 0%
CABLES (POWER) : 0%
I think that some of the answers are misleading...
In particular the one about source material... apart classical music and, maybe, Jazz there's no such thing as realism...
All pop/rock music is pretty artificial and designed in studio with goals that nothing have to do with realism.
Also source material is more related with music enjoiment, and a good song can be enjoyed well also with a phone and a cheap but good quality bluetooth speaker like the JBL Go...
So IMHO source material have 0% impact.
I also think the room, while it is somewhat an essential element and maybe the most important is also the one with less control... so I will rate it 0% too.
The question is about which components have the most impact... but we need to consider the budget too.
In the low budget area pre and power amps are in the same box, and pretty all components have the same impact and cables can be put out of the game:
SPEAKERS : 33 %
SOURCE (RECORDING) : 0 %
ROOM (ACOUSTIC) : 0 %
SOURCE (PLAYER) : 33 %
AMPLIFICATION/PRE-AMPLIFICATION : 33 %
SOURCE (MEDIA): 0 %
ELECTRICAL SYSTEM : 0 %
CABLES (SIGNAL/SPEAKERS) : 0 %
CABLES (POWER) : 0 %
Going to medium budget (also here pre/power in the same box):
SPEAKERS : 30 %
SOURCE (RECORDING) : 0 %
ROOM (ACOUSTIC) : 0 %
SOURCE (PLAYER) : 37 %
PRE-AMPLIFICATION/AMPLIFICATION : 24 %
SOURCE (MEDIA): 0 %
ELECTRICAL SYSTEM : 1 %
CABLES (SIGNAL/SPEAKERS) : 5 %
CABLES (POWER) : 3 %
Going to higher budget:
SPEAKERS : 20 %
SOURCE (RECORDING) : 0 %
ROOM (ACOUSTIC) : 0 %
SOURCE (PLAYER) : 30 %
AMPLIFICATION : 15 %
PRE-AMPLIFICATION : 15 %
SOURCE (MEDIA): 0 %
ELECTRICAL SYSTEM : 3 %
CABLES (SIGNAL/SPEAKERS) : 10 %
CABLES (POWER) : 7 %
But, in general, once a minimum level of quality is reached the component which have the most (negative) impact is always the worst one in the signal chain, in order: Source->Preamp->Power Amp->Loudspeakers
Strictly IMHO. 😉
The room is very important to the overall sound quality but there is very little we can do about it. Usually when buying a house factoring into it a listening room is quite far down the list and room treatments for most of us are out of the question too as we don't actually want them IN the room, regardless of how necessary we might think they are.
I don't want room treatment in my room I have enough stuff to put in a room already.
Really you want a loudspeaker setup that is as immune to the listening room as is possible. By definition this then places a huge amount of weighting on the loudspeakers. This includes any DSP necessary for their effective integration and the amplification required to drive them effectively. Whether or not you place any weighting to the amplifiers themselves is another question. If they aren't capable of the job then they should be considered faulty and be thrown out. When looked at that way they are critical, but once correctly appropriated any capable and correctly designed amplifier will do.
Multiple subs will sort out any bass issues to any reasonable level of accetability and a main set of loudspeakers designed around controlling directivity will keep another large detrimental aspect of room acoustics at bay.
The loudspeakers, their integration and effective amplification = the most important thing.
The rest? Something competant from a technical point of view.
I don't want room treatment in my room I have enough stuff to put in a room already.
Really you want a loudspeaker setup that is as immune to the listening room as is possible. By definition this then places a huge amount of weighting on the loudspeakers. This includes any DSP necessary for their effective integration and the amplification required to drive them effectively. Whether or not you place any weighting to the amplifiers themselves is another question. If they aren't capable of the job then they should be considered faulty and be thrown out. When looked at that way they are critical, but once correctly appropriated any capable and correctly designed amplifier will do.
Multiple subs will sort out any bass issues to any reasonable level of accetability and a main set of loudspeakers designed around controlling directivity will keep another large detrimental aspect of room acoustics at bay.
The loudspeakers, their integration and effective amplification = the most important thing.
The rest? Something competant from a technical point of view.
yeah, im lucky enough to have a room for my system so I can put as much treatment as I can.
Using speaker with waveguide, cardioid bass, ect will help of course but wont come anywhere close to contain room reverberation. no amount of dsp will help either. Comb filtering can only be controlled via absorption and diffusion.
multiple subwoofer may smooth the FR, but doesnt do anything to control room reverberation: they will actually add more to the room.
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Presumptions:
- right device is used in the right place
e.g. using an amp that can not drive a low impedance speaker, or using long bell wire to power current hungry speakers, and so on
- Comparable devices are chosen
e.g. a 2inch transistor radio speaker with a Krell, or a $20 amp or a Quad ESL
- System is setup correctly.
Otherwise it becomes meaningless.
SPEAKERS : 25%
SOURCE (RECORDING) : 15%
ROOM (ACOUSTIC) : 10%
SOURCE (PLAYER) : 25%
AMPLIFICATION : 20%
PRE-AMPLIFICATION : 3%
SOURCE (MEDIA): 0%
ELECTRICAL SYSTEM : 0%
CABLES (SIGNAL/SPEAKERS) : 2% ???
CABLES (POWER) : 0%
- right device is used in the right place
e.g. using an amp that can not drive a low impedance speaker, or using long bell wire to power current hungry speakers, and so on
- Comparable devices are chosen
e.g. a 2inch transistor radio speaker with a Krell, or a $20 amp or a Quad ESL
- System is setup correctly.
Otherwise it becomes meaningless.
SPEAKERS : 25%
SOURCE (RECORDING) : 15%
ROOM (ACOUSTIC) : 10%
SOURCE (PLAYER) : 25%
AMPLIFICATION : 20%
PRE-AMPLIFICATION : 3%
SOURCE (MEDIA): 0%
ELECTRICAL SYSTEM : 0%
CABLES (SIGNAL/SPEAKERS) : 2% ???
CABLES (POWER) : 0%
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Yes, a state of the art ( whatever the frack that means) pair of headphones could eliminate all room issues, and perhaps exhibit more linear FR and lower distortion at safe / sane listening levels (no guarantee appropriate caution will be demonstrated there), often at far lower cost than any decent speaker system - BUT the headphone listening experience is not to everyone's liking.
Not counting "ear buds", I've owned at least a score from cheap Sonys to Koss, Micro-Seiki (ESL and condensor), Grados, Beyer, AudioTechnica, Nakamichi, Yamaha, Jecklin Float, and listened to probably dozens more.
I just find the experience too artificial - maybe there's a factor of cognitive dissonance between the canned acoustics perceived with let say 95% of recorded material and whatever environment you're inhabiting before and after the session. And don't even talk about - yeah, but with "properly recorded binaural performances".... - when will that ever happen?
sorry, RANT OFF
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