I want to put together a very quick, cheap and easy speaker. Just something that I can throw together very quickly. I plan on building the P13/D27 when I have a little more time, but for now I just want to try making a small satelite using a 2" extended range driver from Tang Band. The drivers in question are the TB W2-852SE, and the W2-880SA, both available from parts express.
The 852SE has a fq. range of 310-20,000 hz, with a Fs of 155hz, and with a nominal impedance of 4 ohm.
THe 880SA has a fq. range of 330-20,000 hz, with a Fs of 165hz, and a nominal impdeance of 8 ohm.
I guess I'm a little worried about the 4 ohm impedance of the first speaker, especially if I decide to run a bunch of these off a receiver. Would this make the 880SA the safer choice?
Can I get a lot of sound out of these little drivers? And if used in a ported enclosure, could I get any sort of bass out of these? Or are these speakers simply too small to be of any use for anything besides a pc/bookshelf speaker? In case you're wondering, I am going to try and replicate the satelites used in the Boston Acoustics Avidea 770 system, which I've read several good reviews on. Their satelites use, however two 2" drivers and a 3/4" tweeter in a ported enclosure, with the following dimensions: 2-1/2" W x 7-3/4" H x 4-3/4" D.
Basically, I am interested in this project to see how closely I can replicate the Boston Avidea satelite enclosure, with their small size and curvature, but I would like to get decent sound while I'm in the process. Thanks for any help!
The 852SE has a fq. range of 310-20,000 hz, with a Fs of 155hz, and with a nominal impedance of 4 ohm.
THe 880SA has a fq. range of 330-20,000 hz, with a Fs of 165hz, and a nominal impdeance of 8 ohm.
I guess I'm a little worried about the 4 ohm impedance of the first speaker, especially if I decide to run a bunch of these off a receiver. Would this make the 880SA the safer choice?
Can I get a lot of sound out of these little drivers? And if used in a ported enclosure, could I get any sort of bass out of these? Or are these speakers simply too small to be of any use for anything besides a pc/bookshelf speaker? In case you're wondering, I am going to try and replicate the satelites used in the Boston Acoustics Avidea 770 system, which I've read several good reviews on. Their satelites use, however two 2" drivers and a 3/4" tweeter in a ported enclosure, with the following dimensions: 2-1/2" W x 7-3/4" H x 4-3/4" D.
Basically, I am interested in this project to see how closely I can replicate the Boston Avidea satelite enclosure, with their small size and curvature, but I would like to get decent sound while I'm in the process. Thanks for any help!
I wouldn't worry too much about using the 852SE with your receiver. Chances are that you'll run out of xmax before you push your reciever too hard.
As for your second concern, I'd have to say that the bass output of these would be very weak. It's a two inch driver and with the laws of physics being what they are, there's not much you can do with the box to greatly improve the bass response. Maybe you could add one of those 6.5" tangband woofers with 13mm xmax as a small sub? They're on sale for $30 right now at PE.
As for your second concern, I'd have to say that the bass output of these would be very weak. It's a two inch driver and with the laws of physics being what they are, there's not much you can do with the box to greatly improve the bass response. Maybe you could add one of those 6.5" tangband woofers with 13mm xmax as a small sub? They're on sale for $30 right now at PE.
nrgy said:
My advice, if you want a small single driver satellite, I don't recommend anything smaller than a 3". 2" drivers don't go low enough to cross to a subwoofer, even if run full range. And if you run them full range, they handle about half a watt.
I've done tests of the W2-880. I don't recommend using this driver below 600hz, or above 8khz. Distortion outside of that range is horrendous. 2nd harmonic distortion skyrockets below 600hz, and there is a nasty energy storage issue at 10khz. I'll attach a few images. Frequency response isn't that great, but controlable enough. I see a certain use for these drivers, and that's as a midrange in center channel speakers.
Attachments
I will second Zaph on not using the two-inch drivers. They all have less low frequency and high frequency performance than some of the three-inch drivers.
In case you choose a three-inch, you might want to look at the W3-881S modification on my Web site. I would send you to my mod thread on this forum, but it is easier for me to send you to my site than for me to find the link to my thread.
Just go to "driver modifications."
Good designing and good building,
Mark
In case you choose a three-inch, you might want to look at the W3-881S modification on my Web site. I would send you to my mod thread on this forum, but it is easier for me to send you to my site than for me to find the link to my thread.
Just go to "driver modifications."
Good designing and good building,
Mark
Thanks for the input. I actually do have a pair of W3-881S, as I read in other threads not to go smaller than 3", however I still have a strong urge to at least try and build a 2" speaker, if nothing else, to satisfy my curiosity. Does anyone have a particular recommendation on which speaker to choose, and if I should go sealed or ported? I think I read somewhere the W2s sound best sealed, but I'm thinking this would really limit the lower end.
Also, what size sub would integrate the best? I'm assuming if I went too large, that would leave a larger gap in the midbass.
Lastly, what about running a pair of these in an enclosure? Being new to all this, I'm not sure how this would affect sound quality/loudness.
I may just build the W3, but I would like to explore all possibilities of using the W2 before I count it out.
Thanks!
Also, what size sub would integrate the best? I'm assuming if I went too large, that would leave a larger gap in the midbass.
Lastly, what about running a pair of these in an enclosure? Being new to all this, I'm not sure how this would affect sound quality/loudness.
I may just build the W3, but I would like to explore all possibilities of using the W2 before I count it out.
Thanks!
Don't mean to be redudant, but I want to elaborate a little on using multiple drivers, as reading other threads have raised some questions for me.
If I were to use one of these fullrange drivers in an enclosure, be it a 3" or 2", in a simple world I'm assuming the only problem here would be crossing these over with a matching sub in a 2.5 system. However, what problems would I run into if I used a pair of fullrange drivers in an enclosure, say vertically positioned. From other threads, I read about comb filtering at certain frequencies and such, but not sure if this would apply to this situation as these are all new terms to me. Would I risk cancelling out certain frequencies, and if so can this be avoided by simple placement of the drivers, or how they are wired?
Is there a proper way to do this, or would the risks/hassle not be worth the results over a single full range per enclosure? And I guess I should ask, what would be the benefits? Is it simply a louder and more efficient speaker? Thanks.
If I were to use one of these fullrange drivers in an enclosure, be it a 3" or 2", in a simple world I'm assuming the only problem here would be crossing these over with a matching sub in a 2.5 system. However, what problems would I run into if I used a pair of fullrange drivers in an enclosure, say vertically positioned. From other threads, I read about comb filtering at certain frequencies and such, but not sure if this would apply to this situation as these are all new terms to me. Would I risk cancelling out certain frequencies, and if so can this be avoided by simple placement of the drivers, or how they are wired?
Is there a proper way to do this, or would the risks/hassle not be worth the results over a single full range per enclosure? And I guess I should ask, what would be the benefits? Is it simply a louder and more efficient speaker? Thanks.
Well, lemme see if I can help
If you add another driver then you add another wave source. As soon as you move a different distance away from one driver than the other (ie, move around vertically while horizontally centered in front of the drivers) you change the distance a wave of one driver has to travel relative to the wave of the other driver to reach your ear. Basically, you're closer to one driver than the other. This means that the sound waves from the two drivers are out of phase (unless the difference in distance is one wavelength - but don't worry about that for now). This is true with all speakers that have more than one driver and is unavoidable. As you increase the frequency you decrease the distance you have to move to cause this interference. This is probably why you rarely see more than one tweeter being used in a speaker. Placing the drivers as close together as possible helps this situation, but it won't eliminate it.
On the other hand, line arrays ues lots of drivers placed vertically and I for one, can't here the combing effect, but I also know some people who say they can.
The moral of the story is that if you're not equidistant from two acoustic wave sources then the sum of the acoustic waves from the sources is out of phase (unless the difference in distance is equal to the wavelength the sources are producing) which can cause interference of the two waves. If you're looking for a purist approach, then I'd say don't add a second driver. But heck, you might not even be able to hear the combining effect. The drivers are cheap enough, why not experiment!
If you add another driver then you add another wave source. As soon as you move a different distance away from one driver than the other (ie, move around vertically while horizontally centered in front of the drivers) you change the distance a wave of one driver has to travel relative to the wave of the other driver to reach your ear. Basically, you're closer to one driver than the other. This means that the sound waves from the two drivers are out of phase (unless the difference in distance is one wavelength - but don't worry about that for now). This is true with all speakers that have more than one driver and is unavoidable. As you increase the frequency you decrease the distance you have to move to cause this interference. This is probably why you rarely see more than one tweeter being used in a speaker. Placing the drivers as close together as possible helps this situation, but it won't eliminate it.
On the other hand, line arrays ues lots of drivers placed vertically and I for one, can't here the combing effect, but I also know some people who say they can.
The moral of the story is that if you're not equidistant from two acoustic wave sources then the sum of the acoustic waves from the sources is out of phase (unless the difference in distance is equal to the wavelength the sources are producing) which can cause interference of the two waves. If you're looking for a purist approach, then I'd say don't add a second driver. But heck, you might not even be able to hear the combining effect. The drivers are cheap enough, why not experiment!
Impoliticus said:
The interesting thing about using the 880SA in an array is the fact that combing may not be quite as bad as you think. Most combing calculations assume the speaker radiating surface is a disc. With the 880SA however, due to the phase plug and it's size ratio compared to the rest of the radiating surface, the flat circle equations can not be used. There is no radiation from the center of the cone, it is a ring. I think this would actually decrease the combing effect. Of course this would only work with a driver this small having a phase plug this big.
I agree, experiement! I have 4 of those laying around and I may experiment a bit myself.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.