It's dangerous to cross a tweeter - it might hunt you down and take revenge!
Don't make it cross! Just ignore it and it might go away...
Cutting a cross into the dome is not a good idea... so maybe make a cross on the faceplate instead?
Actually, just make the sign of the cross and pray. God will tell you what to do with the tweeter.
If you don't cross the tweeter at the intersection between the marked lines, you might get a ticket for jaywalking.
If you've got the moves, you can cross it up at the top of the key and then take it to the rack STRONG!
Ain't English fun?
Oh, you mean the Wavecor. Honestly I would not directly cross that to a 15" driver, especially that GRS! That would be a very bad idea. I once built a nude OB system that crossed a very nice 15", the Eminence Deltalite 2515, to a back-to-back pair of Dayton ND25FW tweeters wired to operate as a dipole and crossed at 1.6kHz and it worked pretty well all thing considered (I used some serious DSP to do it). There was a separate M-frame below 150Hz, so 3-way.
If you really want to make it a 2-way, use a 4" fullranger as a tweeter with limited HF extension (for example people use the ScanSpeak 10F4424G00 in that role). Otherwise a 3-way that combines the tweeter with a 6" midrange like the SB17MFC or CAC. The coax approach and the mid+tweeter are OK but the pattern will change from dipole to forward-only radiation when the mid cone no longer radiates to the rear nicely. This will create challenges with the tonal balance "up there".
Don't make it cross! Just ignore it and it might go away...
Cutting a cross into the dome is not a good idea... so maybe make a cross on the faceplate instead?
Actually, just make the sign of the cross and pray. God will tell you what to do with the tweeter.
If you don't cross the tweeter at the intersection between the marked lines, you might get a ticket for jaywalking.
If you've got the moves, you can cross it up at the top of the key and then take it to the rack STRONG!
Ain't English fun?
Oh, you mean the Wavecor. Honestly I would not directly cross that to a 15" driver, especially that GRS! That would be a very bad idea. I once built a nude OB system that crossed a very nice 15", the Eminence Deltalite 2515, to a back-to-back pair of Dayton ND25FW tweeters wired to operate as a dipole and crossed at 1.6kHz and it worked pretty well all thing considered (I used some serious DSP to do it). There was a separate M-frame below 150Hz, so 3-way.
If you really want to make it a 2-way, use a 4" fullranger as a tweeter with limited HF extension (for example people use the ScanSpeak 10F4424G00 in that role). Otherwise a 3-way that combines the tweeter with a 6" midrange like the SB17MFC or CAC. The coax approach and the mid+tweeter are OK but the pattern will change from dipole to forward-only radiation when the mid cone no longer radiates to the rear nicely. This will create challenges with the tonal balance "up there".
2000 2nd order max
More like 2000 4th order
That’s electrical … it’s a bonus if you get acoustical to go lower….
My .02c
More like 2000 4th order
That’s electrical … it’s a bonus if you get acoustical to go lower….
My .02c
Hahaha, you had some good ones in there!!! Yeah, I think I’m kidding myself with the two way option. Tried a 6” full ranger for a while in top end and didn’t love it. Measured the response and found out why…. It was fully dipole that way which was cool but just didn’t love it.
So I went back to my original kef q100 design and there is something I don’t like about the top end of that speaker either. Even in the enclosure there was something it was missing. This is of course active with eq on both to being the response into line.
Maybe I just need to add the full range back and put it up high as the midrange driver. Its response in midrange wasn’t too bad.
Attachments
If using linkwitz 42db/Octave? Man that high huh?
What do you mean electrical vs acoustical?
That specific tweeter can be used down to about 1.600Hz in a high quality two way without any problem.
As with all chassis, the distortion increases the lower you cross, so the max SPL level should be lower. As always... These are quite basic things about speakers, if you want loud or lower distortion, just X- it higher and/ or make the X a higher order. Finding the sweet spot is a large chapter in the magic book of speaker building.
Some combine such 15" woofers with a small horn speaker from 3.000Hz and like the sound. Depends on driver and music material how well it may work.
If you want high quality, don't use one of the cheapest 15" around do the work of a mid frequency driver.
A compromise would be a 2-way DSP or 1/2 active construction, using a decend mid plus tweeter combination with a passive x-over. This way you can correct the baffle characteristic, room influence and any problems of the passive 2-way branch as well. So you are on the right way IMO.
Any open baffle woofer should be done with a DSP and separate amp anyway, as the passive version with neccesary level corrections will usually be worse and more expensive.
If going 3-Way active will improve anything may depend on the amps used. In most cases there is no problem to do active as well or better than passive.
As with all chassis, the distortion increases the lower you cross, so the max SPL level should be lower. As always... These are quite basic things about speakers, if you want loud or lower distortion, just X- it higher and/ or make the X a higher order. Finding the sweet spot is a large chapter in the magic book of speaker building.
Some combine such 15" woofers with a small horn speaker from 3.000Hz and like the sound. Depends on driver and music material how well it may work.
If you want high quality, don't use one of the cheapest 15" around do the work of a mid frequency driver.
A compromise would be a 2-way DSP or 1/2 active construction, using a decend mid plus tweeter combination with a passive x-over. This way you can correct the baffle characteristic, room influence and any problems of the passive 2-way branch as well. So you are on the right way IMO.
Any open baffle woofer should be done with a DSP and separate amp anyway, as the passive version with neccesary level corrections will usually be worse and more expensive.
If going 3-Way active will improve anything may depend on the amps used. In most cases there is no problem to do active as well or better than passive.
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Yeah, you’re not even exaggerating on the “the cheapest 15 drivers” in the GRS. I figured I just wanted to move a lot of air and I could get 4 of them that had low fs and very high qts for little need for eq to bring the bass response up.
I’m wondering now if they’ve served their purpose and if I want to step things up I’ll need different bass and mid bass drivers. I’m using 2 subs so the OB doesn’t need to reach the lowest octaves.
It’s hard to find info on the best woofer-modwoofer because most are concerned with getting as low as possible and they are also mostly passive.
I’d be happy with 40hz and I’m active.
(I started with 1/2 active like you mentioned with my q100 driver passive and xo to woofers active.
I’m wondering now if they’ve served their purpose and if I want to step things up I’ll need different bass and mid bass drivers. I’m using 2 subs so the OB doesn’t need to reach the lowest octaves.
It’s hard to find info on the best woofer-modwoofer because most are concerned with getting as low as possible and they are also mostly passive.
I’d be happy with 40hz and I’m active.
(I started with 1/2 active like you mentioned with my q100 driver passive and xo to woofers active.
Given the nice low Fs of your tweeter - being 450Hz , I would use a third-order filter
of exactly the quoted frequency response > being 1.5Khz. (you will get good power handling)
It is quite possible to get a 15" operating to 1.5K , but expect poorer dispersion and THD.
You don't have to go 3way, but I think most readers would recommend it 🙂
of exactly the quoted frequency response > being 1.5Khz. (you will get good power handling)
It is quite possible to get a 15" operating to 1.5K , but expect poorer dispersion and THD.
You don't have to go 3way, but I think most readers would recommend it 🙂
You have used the Kef Q, quite a good driver and the silver broadband chassis looked OK too. You did not like both of them, as I understand.
I ask my self what kind of sound you chase. To go away from these driver types, for more live like reproduction, my idea would be a high quality, smaller 6-8" PA mid driver from 200Hz-2000 Hz, light cone together wirh a strong drive. Used together with the very good TW030 tweeter.
Something like this:
https://www.parts-express.com/Peerl...nal-6-1-2-Midrange-Woofer-264-1402?quantity=1
Cheap enough for a try , but a high quality product. Pro driver are much cheaper than HIFI stuff, don't get fooled by the price.
I would try it open first, but finaly with a few layers of damping material covered from the back or even stuffed and closed, in maybe 6 liters.
You could later try a wave guide on the tweeter, for more direct, "in the face" sound with a little higher efficiency.
I ask my self what kind of sound you chase. To go away from these driver types, for more live like reproduction, my idea would be a high quality, smaller 6-8" PA mid driver from 200Hz-2000 Hz, light cone together wirh a strong drive. Used together with the very good TW030 tweeter.
Something like this:
https://www.parts-express.com/Peerl...nal-6-1-2-Midrange-Woofer-264-1402?quantity=1
Cheap enough for a try , but a high quality product. Pro driver are much cheaper than HIFI stuff, don't get fooled by the price.
I would try it open first, but finaly with a few layers of damping material covered from the back or even stuffed and closed, in maybe 6 liters.
You could later try a wave guide on the tweeter, for more direct, "in the face" sound with a little higher efficiency.
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You never said 42db /oct lol 😂 sorry my bad
We’ll bring that’s the case , I would be concerned that the Tweeter would have serious break up modes as it gets closer and closer to resonance…
So you’re just gonna have to take a listen! Asking the tweeter to play full power right up to the point of the crossover is surely going to take some listening tests depending on how the loud you go