Located in Germany and super service/talk/help.
Maybe the shipping is the bad point?
I always do my metal work here :
https://www.frontpanels.de/
Best,
Maybe the shipping is the bad point?
I always do my metal work here :
https://www.frontpanels.de/
Best,
There should be a local laser engraving service that can do this for you, on plates you provide.
They may want a particular material for best results. Filling the engraving with paint is simple,
they just dump some paint on, and then wipe it off. The engraving retains the paint.
They may want a particular material for best results. Filling the engraving with paint is simple,
they just dump some paint on, and then wipe it off. The engraving retains the paint.
So $150ish each for custom machined, engraved, paint filled, etc. at onesie-twosie quantities. That sounds very reasonable to me. Some spend more than that on just the binding posts never mind that a $3 Neutrik speakON does the job better.
My PCB assembly house has a sign in the hallway: "WE DELIVER PRODUCTS THAT ARE GOOD, FAST, AND CHEAP. (Choose any two)."
ModuShop in Italy (aka Hifi2000) will be able to make a panel and apply digital print to it. I bet Takachi in Japan will be able to do it too. Digital print won't look as cool as paint-filled engraving but it will look professional.
Tom
Around here the pricing is typically a dollar a hole and 25 cents per letter. Perhaps a bit more for just one piece.
Can you post a drawing of what you want?
Can you post a drawing of what you want?
Done with care and patience, etching can look good.
Looking through YouTube videos on etching (there are a LOT!) I was a bit surprised to see how it can be done applique style , shown by a knife maker here. ( Skip to 20:30 as preceding is building a simple 12VDC supply) His video gives the name of a stencil company that sells cassettes for a label printer to use in making the applied stencil. Looks doable accurately with some practice. Anybody here used this technique?
A few years ago I spent $400 getting two rectangular holes cut in a panel that I provided and have an acrylic window made (and engraved) to fit the opening.
Digital print setup fees typically run $35-70 for a single colour. That's just for setup. Not the print itself. That costs extra. Takachi, for example, charges an extra $40 if they have to massage the vector file you send them to fit their system. People like to eat periodically and food costs money it turns out.
I'm not aware of any machine shop that'll even have an employee approach the materials rack for $1/hole and $0.25/letter, so <$10 for a binding post panel. Heck, Online Metals charges over $10 just for the raw aluminum sheet (1/8" thick, 5052 alloy, 5x7 inch size).
Tom
Digital print setup fees typically run $35-70 for a single colour. That's just for setup. Not the print itself. That costs extra. Takachi, for example, charges an extra $40 if they have to massage the vector file you send them to fit their system. People like to eat periodically and food costs money it turns out.
I'm not aware of any machine shop that'll even have an employee approach the materials rack for $1/hole and $0.25/letter, so <$10 for a binding post panel. Heck, Online Metals charges over $10 just for the raw aluminum sheet (1/8" thick, 5052 alloy, 5x7 inch size).
Tom
I pay as much as $3.50 a pound for aluminum. A 5 x 7 x 1/8” is about .4 pounds or about $1.40 per piece for the material. The machining cost will depend on the machine used. A shear is of course the lowest cost machine time but requires a human operator. A milling machine perhaps the highest machine time cost. Of course a milling machine is probably the lowest cost tool.
Machining for such a piece of aluminum I would do on my turret punch press. I believe it is rated at 200 punches a minute. But that neglects travel time. So a reasonable number is 50 punches per minute.
Setup time can vary tremendously. For something as simple as an I/O panel it probably is not even worth using a setup computer. I would program the punch using “G” code. The simplest code is just the X,Y coordinates of the hole and the punch. A pair of holes would also include the offset between holes. Took longer to type this bit than it would take to program it. Punching out the plate could be a single code line or a set of four depending on the punches available.
Now punches like mine aren’t often found in small shops. Today to get the machine and tooling runs about $250,000.00 !
Most of the WWW vendors of custom panels I am familiar with use milling machines. Longer setup and machining time compared to a punch.
Of course it could also be done with a bandsaw and drill press. Low machine cost, very high labor cost.
On some of my projects there can be more than 200 custom panels. The machinery was paid for with the first two projects! (Compared to what the panels would have cost from the normal panel suppliers.)
Machining for such a piece of aluminum I would do on my turret punch press. I believe it is rated at 200 punches a minute. But that neglects travel time. So a reasonable number is 50 punches per minute.
Setup time can vary tremendously. For something as simple as an I/O panel it probably is not even worth using a setup computer. I would program the punch using “G” code. The simplest code is just the X,Y coordinates of the hole and the punch. A pair of holes would also include the offset between holes. Took longer to type this bit than it would take to program it. Punching out the plate could be a single code line or a set of four depending on the punches available.
Now punches like mine aren’t often found in small shops. Today to get the machine and tooling runs about $250,000.00 !
Most of the WWW vendors of custom panels I am familiar with use milling machines. Longer setup and machining time compared to a punch.
Of course it could also be done with a bandsaw and drill press. Low machine cost, very high labor cost.
On some of my projects there can be more than 200 custom panels. The machinery was paid for with the first two projects! (Compared to what the panels would have cost from the normal panel suppliers.)
Probably if you are using a general purpose machine shop. Not really an issue if you select someone who has a base business of doing custom panels. Back before I bought my machines I used Proco. Now owned by someone else.
But there is
https://www.markertek.com/custom/rack_panels
Or
https://www.pennelcomonline.com/Mobile/en/New-from-Penn-Elcom-Panel-Designer/m-cc-168.aspx
https://www.rcicustom.com/
https://cablefactory.com/custom-metalwork/
They should be much more reasonably priced than a local machine shop.
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FWIW, Takachi uses a combination of punches and milling for machining holes in chassis. Other outfits, like Protocase, use lasers.
Tom
Most not all. Looked at Protocase, nice site, lots of useful information. Didn’t see anything about laser cutting, but reasonably well made normal parts.
The issue I don’t like about laser cutting is how to handle the exhaust.
Most folks who are really in the sheet metal businesses prefer punches. Even my slow 50 punches a minute makes milling look like slow torture!
You can even find folks who will do sheet metal with a water jet. Many ways to do it.
But if you want to laser cut, you can find machines starting at $65,000! Machines are generally cheaper than a turret punch, but slower and higher operating cost. But not limited by punch size. (Laser is faster than nibbling funny shapes.)
The issue I don’t like about laser cutting is how to handle the exhaust.
Most folks who are really in the sheet metal businesses prefer punches. Even my slow 50 punches a minute makes milling look like slow torture!
You can even find folks who will do sheet metal with a water jet. Many ways to do it.
But if you want to laser cut, you can find machines starting at $65,000! Machines are generally cheaper than a turret punch, but slower and higher operating cost. But not limited by punch size. (Laser is faster than nibbling funny shapes.)
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There's a member here, I think @poseidonsvoice , who always has beautiful engraved panels. reach out to him to see how he does it and report back.
This is a newer version than my engraver. But pretty much the same. As I recall cost about the same as my car. A rotary engraver can engrave more materials than a laser type. However on hard material such as stainless steel, you dull the engraving tip in as little as one panel. Not sure but I think I have about 100 tips. (You can change them in seconds!)
https://www.gravotech.us/products/engraving-stations-cnc-stations/isx000
I should mention my rule in buying machine tools is that making instead of buying finished product should save enough to pay for the tool. Usually in two years or less!
https://www.gravotech.us/products/engraving-stations-cnc-stations/isx000
I should mention my rule in buying machine tools is that making instead of buying finished product should save enough to pay for the tool. Usually in two years or less!
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If you use the Front Panel Express software it tells you the individual cost of every element of your design, from the raw material to each hole, lettter/word, infill, graphic, etc.
Then maybe you can optimize the design to reduce the cost some. You can also provide your own raw material if you have better source.
I had a basic 2RU preamp front panel done there in 2022 for about $85, and was happy with the quaility.
Who will look at the back of your speaker and go 'Ooh! Aah!' about the letters?
I got engraving done on steel molds, in 2D and 3D both, gave them CAD files and the material, done on CNC machines, costs here are like $6 per hour, $5 for long jobs, setup is on your time...load to unload.
The machines from Haas (for example) have a software that allows machining time calculations, the drawing is loaded, it works out the machining sequence and tool changes, and gives a fairly accurate time assessment, the shop can give a decently accurate quote from that data.
I would use a material that would not spoil the sound from the speaker, so a hard material is not on the list.
Metal tends to be hard as far as sound is concerned.
1/8" is 3 mm, use Bakelite, kid stuff for a trophy shop, or use the thickest PCB sheet you can find.
You can make it the same way as a PCB, or order one from a PCB supplier, less hassle than finding a CNC shop.
Coat with clear paint when fitting, so it will not tarnish.
I got engraving done on steel molds, in 2D and 3D both, gave them CAD files and the material, done on CNC machines, costs here are like $6 per hour, $5 for long jobs, setup is on your time...load to unload.
The machines from Haas (for example) have a software that allows machining time calculations, the drawing is loaded, it works out the machining sequence and tool changes, and gives a fairly accurate time assessment, the shop can give a decently accurate quote from that data.
I would use a material that would not spoil the sound from the speaker, so a hard material is not on the list.
Metal tends to be hard as far as sound is concerned.
1/8" is 3 mm, use Bakelite, kid stuff for a trophy shop, or use the thickest PCB sheet you can find.
You can make it the same way as a PCB, or order one from a PCB supplier, less hassle than finding a CNC shop.
Coat with clear paint when fitting, so it will not tarnish.
You can work out the frequencies for Phenolic and glass filled Epoxy as well?
If it is easy to do...
I feel it is a more suitable material for a back plate than metal.
Prototype hack is to laser print on paper, laminate with clear sheet, and stick it to a piece of MDF or similar material.
That is your back panel, use a size that is clear of the mounting holes.
Commercial shops can give photographic quality results on paper, or you can use adhesive back paper, and cover top with transparent adhesive sheet.
There are many ways to mount photos on a board, and certainly it is cheaper and more easily done than at a CNC or laser shop.
If it is easy to do...
I feel it is a more suitable material for a back plate than metal.
Prototype hack is to laser print on paper, laminate with clear sheet, and stick it to a piece of MDF or similar material.
That is your back panel, use a size that is clear of the mounting holes.
Commercial shops can give photographic quality results on paper, or you can use adhesive back paper, and cover top with transparent adhesive sheet.
There are many ways to mount photos on a board, and certainly it is cheaper and more easily done than at a CNC or laser shop.