I tend to agree. If you never have tried all sorts of setup, listening distances and so on, you could be unaware of it, but I can’t imagine any serious listener not recognizing this. I mean, you do try things, right? And every time I want to listen carefully, I pull the speakers out and push the chair inwards. Don’t you?
Soooo, did you mean flawless speakers under $1000 ????
Because "flawless" when using $5000 in parts can get you "there" in my experience.
Using every cabinet trick and mod I know including 1/4" thick concrete board internal cabinet wall lining, and with RAAL, Aurum Cantus, Accuton, etc, etc .... the best xover parts, high grade internal wiring, Gaia footers .... I say bring on any $30,000 manufacturers speakers to compare!
Because "flawless" when using $5000 in parts can get you "there" in my experience.
Using every cabinet trick and mod I know including 1/4" thick concrete board internal cabinet wall lining, and with RAAL, Aurum Cantus, Accuton, etc, etc .... the best xover parts, high grade internal wiring, Gaia footers .... I say bring on any $30,000 manufacturers speakers to compare!
Simple as hell .... Get a digital inline MiniDSP Shark processor with room correction. That will tell you how much correction your room is needing, IF your speakers are relatively flat.
@planet10 great design Dave. Where can we find specs, plans and crossover?I have seen quite a few speakers with less than a grands worth of drivers.
Our contribution (this one would fail, but without EnABLed drivers (or DIY that) it fits the limit.
dave
👍 I'll claim that the FM curves has absolutely noting to do with HiFi reproduction as that in itself need to be performed at original SPL. We can just forget about these... 🙂
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Oh jeah, I've done it like many of course, leaned forward, but without actually paying attention too much what happens and asked why and so on 🙂
My current quest is to extend the listening distance somehow, it is a family livingroom and positioning of stuff has to be practical. Thats my context and I'm set out to make a good playback system for it. I can pull out a chair when needed, but wouldn't it be something if the sound was great at the sofa all the time? thats the design goal actually, thus very important 🙂
Perhaps problem and solution would have been clear to some, not an issue for many with dedicated listening room, but for me I had to first recognize the phenomenon, importance and relevance of it for what I was after and then try to figure out what constitutes it. Now I think I'm sure what to do next, I need higher DI system. Was perhaps obvious all along but wasn't sure.
We are all at various stages of the hobby, sharing mine so that someone stumbling after could find it faster 🙂
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I agree. I think many people listen too far away from the speakers. My listening room is 22 ft x 30 ft, and I listen at 8 ft from the speakers. I get a very high proportion of direct sound versus reflected sound.
Best sound for me is sitting 6' away shoulder pressing, using the Tv as a mirror, is using a single 6" 2-way.
But usually I am laying on a couch, ears 10' away, way over to one side, the 6" 2-way is still clean, just less details than at 6', and bass is starting to struggle.
But vocal intelligibility and detail are still top notch.
I also use a pair of 12" 2-ways, way more bass, less struggling modulation.
I mostly use them laying 10' away when I'm not paying hardly any attention to the music (such as playing a video game), or watching a movie with bass in it, like Shin Godzilla, or even Prince of Darkness. I'm scared the bass in any scifi/horror will blow the little 6" 2-way.
Then at 15' away (at the table playing Uno), the 6" 2-way is basically useless for light 80's rock or anything with more bass, so the big 2-ways work best for that (firing down the long of 13' x 25').
But a subwoofer and rolling the small 2-way's bass would change everything.
Too bad I am addicted to 35+ year old receivers.............
But usually I am laying on a couch, ears 10' away, way over to one side, the 6" 2-way is still clean, just less details than at 6', and bass is starting to struggle.
But vocal intelligibility and detail are still top notch.
I also use a pair of 12" 2-ways, way more bass, less struggling modulation.
I mostly use them laying 10' away when I'm not paying hardly any attention to the music (such as playing a video game), or watching a movie with bass in it, like Shin Godzilla, or even Prince of Darkness. I'm scared the bass in any scifi/horror will blow the little 6" 2-way.
Then at 15' away (at the table playing Uno), the 6" 2-way is basically useless for light 80's rock or anything with more bass, so the big 2-ways work best for that (firing down the long of 13' x 25').
But a subwoofer and rolling the small 2-way's bass would change everything.
Too bad I am addicted to 35+ year old receivers.............
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I’m at as much as 1.5 meters from the speakers here in my living room. My receiver is no more than 12 years old.. but the speakers are 32.
Flawless? Not in any way. But really enjoyable.
Flawless? Not in any way. But really enjoyable.
FWIW I'm proclaiming "beginner's luck" with my wooden wave guides. I still need some time to do some tests and get a better idea of the EQ required to fix the tonal balance, which is a bit nasally, but I was braced for worse.
The throat starts off at about 5° (plus a small negative chamfer for the rubber surround), and follows a smooth, almost circular curve out past 120° or so. I prioritised a swept-back Le Cleac'h like mouth, and I'm glad I did that. I might do some impulse tests to confirm, but I don't think I'll need any long duration FIR filters to eliminate "Edith Piaf singing in a telephone booth" echo effects.
The throat starts off at about 5° (plus a small negative chamfer for the rubber surround), and follows a smooth, almost circular curve out past 120° or so. I prioritised a swept-back Le Cleac'h like mouth, and I'm glad I did that. I might do some impulse tests to confirm, but I don't think I'll need any long duration FIR filters to eliminate "Edith Piaf singing in a telephone booth" echo effects.
50 bucks can get you there as long as you change expectations accordingly.
The word flawless is subjective and meaningless by itself without knowing the entire context, including someone's personal taste.
Flawless in an absolute sense of the word doesn't exist by definition.
Unless you are a AI bot living in a theoretical world.
Although some theories are also everything except being flawless, especially in the world of acoustics.
Not to talk about the compromises or (opposite) choices that someone bumps into very quickly, even in theory.
XTZ Spirit 4 is potentially one of the worst speakers I’ve ever heard - cheap cabinet that vibrates like crazy. Shame because they look the part.
What about the HKL-01 speaker? This looks to me like it was based on the Kline & Hummel (became Neuman monitors.) The Neumann KH-420 certainly brings the beans.
http://hannover-hardcore.de/infinity_classics/!!!/Dokumentation HKL-01.pdf
http://hannover-hardcore.de/infinity_classics/!!!/Dokumentation HKL-01.pdf
Someone here pointed to a review (in english?) in "Hifi-News" about the Spirit 4 but I could not find any rewiew with measurements!
Btw at least the first Gen. of Buchardt S-400 had no damping material at all in the Cab! And it got highly praised reviews!
How crazy is that!
Btw at least the first Gen. of Buchardt S-400 had no damping material at all in the Cab! And it got highly praised reviews!
How crazy is that!
