"Is it any wonder that the consuming public is confused? This is a marketing department's dream!"
For the general public it doesn't matter because they will always be confused.
The general public thinks it means better. More power is better.
But in a DIY audio forum I think we need to end the propagation of misused terms and the only way to do that is for those in the know to use them correctly. The younger guys/gals will catch on.
There are some terms that have come to be accepted by common use. like voltage for potential and that is fine.
I agree.
Sound technicians have used this clumsy nomenclature for decades. It doesn't matter if some of the terms are misnomers because the sound reinforcement calculations yield reliable results and as long as you always use them you will be comparing apples to apples. It doesn't matter if they call it "RMS power" as long as it really means average power when driven by a sine wave. Speakers are rated in db/watt so your calculations should provide reliable results even if you call it the wrong thing.
I have noticed a trend towards rating speaker drivers in dB/2.83 volt. This is much more useful because impedance is pretty nominal. 2.83 volt may seem like a clumsy number to work with but of course it provides more or less direct comparison with 8 ohm drivers rated in dB/watt.
It's easy to get confused and even easier to confuse someone else when comparing the different standards.
What Fast Eddie said .
I see lots of people here posting arguments which were already old when pyramids were bein built, and perhaps thinking that being nitpicky or Grammar Nazis will carve their name in the Great History Stone Tablets or whatever.
Think again
We all know that "RMS Power" is **actually** used meaning: "Speaker power output measured at *just* clipping, calculated using RMS Voltage divided by load nominal impedance" ... period.
You might add "continuously during at least "x" minutes".
That it isn´t written anywhere (hey, maybe it is ) does not detract from it in the least, since it´s used and understood as such by millions.
Trying to get a Nobel Prize by dissing it is old news and a futile task, maybe "important" on the mind of those proposing that , so don´t waste time and do something useful instead.
Or take a nap, walk your dog or watch TV, better ways to spend time, rather that trying to sound "intelligent" by arguing technically incorrect but well established everyday speaking.
If **obsessed** , I suggest you argue instead:
* "Burgers" ... are they really made in Hamburg, Germany?
* "Wieners - Frankfurts" ... same thing.
* "Bourbon" .... is it really distilled by an old ad distinguished dynasty of French and Spanish Kings? . Hey, even *current* Spanish King is a Borbón !!!! The real kind I might add .
For the Tech minded, go and argue the real meaning od "Horsepower"
I never ever read the definition including such important Technical parameters such as horse age, size, weight, race , feeding, or training.
I guess we should ditch the Horsepower engine rating as meaningless and misleading
I see lots of people here posting arguments which were already old when pyramids were bein built, and perhaps thinking that being nitpicky or Grammar Nazis will carve their name in the Great History Stone Tablets or whatever.
Think again
We all know that "RMS Power" is **actually** used meaning: "Speaker power output measured at *just* clipping, calculated using RMS Voltage divided by load nominal impedance" ... period.
You might add "continuously during at least "x" minutes".
That it isn´t written anywhere (hey, maybe it is ) does not detract from it in the least, since it´s used and understood as such by millions.
Trying to get a Nobel Prize by dissing it is old news and a futile task, maybe "important" on the mind of those proposing that
, so don´t waste time and do something useful instead.Or take a nap, walk your dog or watch TV, better ways to spend time, rather that trying to sound "intelligent" by arguing technically incorrect but well established everyday speaking.
If **obsessed** , I suggest you argue instead:
* "Burgers" ... are they really made in Hamburg, Germany?
* "Wieners - Frankfurts" ... same thing.
* "Bourbon" .... is it really distilled by an old ad distinguished dynasty of French and Spanish Kings? . Hey, even *current* Spanish King is a Borbón !!!! The real kind I might add .
For the Tech minded, go and argue the real meaning od "Horsepower"
I never ever read the definition including such important Technical parameters such as horse age, size, weight, race , feeding, or training.
I guess we should ditch the Horsepower engine rating as meaningless and misleading
How does dB of sound pressure correlate to to dBV, dBu or dB power.
The term dB/2.84V is somewhat confusing. I think it tries to relate an efficiency. But isn't it dB of SPL at 1 meter?
For the Tech minded, go and argue the real meaning od "Horsepower"
I never ever read the definition including such important Technical parameters such as horse age, size, weight, race , feeding, or training.
I guess we should ditch the Horsepower engine rating as meaningless and misleading
The horse power of one horse.
Is that peak or rms?
James Watt measured the average output of a horse working a water pump and took that as 1hp. However during sprints the same horse can have a peak power output of 15hp.
Otherwise I agree. In pure eengineering terms rms power is technically meaningless however it does mean something to the consumers.
Moreover it means roughly the same to all of them ie the output an amp can produce into a stated load more or less permanently.
It would be silly to throw a universally understood term away because of a handful of engineers complaining about its scientific validity.
Yes, purely through usage it should be retained, most consumers aren't going to know exactly what it means but that doesn't matter. What I think does matter is the use of the term FAST for a fullrange speaker with subwoofer and I'm on a mission to replace it with WWW that is Wideband With Woofer
This is how I think of it too. For tube amplifiers this should be the tap voltage for the specific load impedance used.
For example a tube amp producing 20Vrms on the 8 ohm tap into an 8 ohm load resistance is producing 50W average, and the same amplifier into a 16 ohm load on the 16 ohm tap you would measure 28.3Vrms..
Unlike solid state amplifiers halving the load impedance does not result in a doubling in available output power (not usually achieved in practice), use the wrong tap and the reverse will usually be the case.
You didn't.
Absolutely, and in addition it would also harm countless numbers of overunity fans, because they rely on such confusion to achieve their overunity claims (the candid ones at least, doing it in good faith).
When you compute the rms power of any funny waveform, it will always exceed the average power, and since "rms watts" are the gold standard, overunity appears magically, because the input power (the "primer") is almost always DC, where the average/rms issue is non-existent.
I happened to launch an april's fool based on this confusion, and it worked miracles with the overunity brigade... until they discovered it was just a hoax, cynically designed to deceive them.
[Terminé] Chauffage électrique à pas cher
When you are lax with physics, it ends up biting you, no matter.
For example, confusion of mass and weight is no problem in everyday's life, but as soon as you touch something remotely technical, it can have unexpected consequences.
Better do things right from the beginning, even if you know when you go astray, and for what reason: in the end, at some point, you will end up tripping over the carpet, no matter how careful and clever you are....
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