What's Your Favourite "Proven Design"?

Hi
Even though I've designed and built many speakers over the years (several 2 way sets; HT systems; Infinite baffle subs; folded horn bins), I haven't really done anything in 20 years, so I want to take the easy way out, and buy a pair of DIY Proven Design speaker kits - ideally with flat-pack cabinets..
I've sold off most of my previous designs, so all I'm after now is a stereo set of speakers for our living room casual istening (RnB, Blues, Rock, Clasical).
Budget is $300-800 US.

I've been trying to buy a set of Swan 3.1A DIY kits, but after trying all the various available emails, etc. I've so far had no luck.
So I'm now thinking of a pair of Paul Carmody's Overnight sensations.

But I'm throwing this into the forum to see if there is something else out there I should be looking at?
The two things I would prefer included in the kit would be flat-pack cabinets and circuit boards for the Xovers (if the crossovers are fairly complex).
Also a great sound stage would be high on the list.

Any ideas?🙄
 
The new CSS kits look good, but I do not know the behavior of the tweeter in breakup. CSS won't say. They do have knock down kits.
Many love the various Bagby designs. There are several using the new SB drivers.
I had the ZAPH SR71 but it was way too bright. Never really tamed the top end

I would stick with kits having decent drivers. Seas, SB, SS, Vifa etc. I have looked at several Hi-Vi drivers and not been impressed. Of course, shipping could be a big deal, so what is available to you domestically may be very different.

I was tempted to do the CSS kit as I have too many projects for a full build. Instead I have a pair of their woofers on order and a pair of XT-25-G60's as I know their top end and behaviors.
 
My favourite proven design(s) is the Frugel-Horn family. Estimated in excess of 5k pair built, flat-paks becoming more available world-wide, and a chameleon-like character with the ability to change the voicing of the loudspeaker. And not expensive.

https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/the-frugel-horn-family.277557/
(need to add Joan to that thread),

The design i am proudest of is the µFonkenSET/µMar-KenSET.

dave
 
Hi Nordo

I checked your location before thinking of some suggestions: do you live in Queensland, Australia?

If so, I really wouldn't suggest getting flat packs/kits from the US: the freight and exchange rate will kill you. For example, about a year ago I priced a pair of the Parts Express 1.2 cubic foot 'Denovo' knock down cabinets: once I worked out these details, the damage was going to be over A$400. Likewise, a pair of the Tritrix kits worked out to about A$700, ouch! Plus there was a high risk of their arriving damaged.

Even a pair of Vifa tweeters from PE is going to cost A$65 in shipping!

You can get kits from Wagner Electronics or The Loudspeaker Kit, for example:

https://www.wagneronline.com.au/6-1...kits/audio-speakers-pa/br-1-99624/1007160/pd/
By all accounts, the BR-1 kit could do with a new crossover, so you would need to budget for that. You can get better value elsewhere for your $, such as the Classix II. LSK used to sell a 6"two way full kit with SB Acoustics drivers (the "M6S") for the same price but that seems to have been discontinued.

Soundlabs sells Visaton kits, with assembled crossovers but no cabinets, most of their kits are relatively expensive.

If you were going to buy from the US, I'd go for something at the higher end of your budget as the freight will be the same - so you get better value spending US$600 on a kit, plus say US$250 freight, than US$300 plus US$250 freight.

Alternatively, almost all the proved designs will come with a full BoM and detailed cabinet and crossover plans, with at least Dayton Audio, Vifa, Peerless, SB Acoustics, Visaton, Tymphany and Scanspeak drivers and various brands of crossover parts available locally.

If you live near a timber supplier which does CNC work, you could get a quote for the MDF, including driver rebates and rounding the edges. The last pair of bookshelves I made cost about $250 in XO parts and drivers, with the MDF about $90 including rounding but not rebates, which I didn't need as I used a Peerless surface mount woofer and did the tweeter rebate myself. Accuracy of the CNC panels was excellent and the MDF quality very good.

HTH

Geoff
 
@tvrgeek - Thanks, I'll definitely check out the CCS kits. I've had a quick look at Zaph. I've noticed that the ZA5.2 kit rates very well, and has a titanium dome tweeter. Yet the bright ZR71 has a fabric dome tweeter. All to do with the Xover I guess.

@wolf_teeth - Thanks, I'll check out your kits at Meniscus. I was looking at stand mounted, mainly for ease of construction, but would not ignore towers.
Crossover assembly doesn't worry me, but rebates in cabinets for speakers would be a problem (sold my router and bits).

@waxx - Does anyone make flat-pack cabinets for any of Jeff Bagby's designs?

@planet10 - Not sure if they would pass the WAF test. 🙄

@GeoffMillar - Hi Geoff. I'm originally from Yallourn then Melbourne, but after some travelling have spent the last 40 years in sunny Queensland (now retired).
In the past, I bought hardware parts from the States and had them sent via Shipito (reasonably economical), but always made the cabinets myself. I don't have the tools I had then, so maybe I should look for a local cabinet maker or wood worker (the driver rebates would be my main problem).
Funny you mentioned Vifa drivers. Virtually all my 2 ways had Vifa drivers which I used to buy from WES. I thought Vifa had "gone out of fashion". I always used the same 1" silk dome tweeter.
Local suppliers of DIY kits and even parts such as drivers, crossovers, etc. which you see advertised in the States, seem to have an enormous mark-up, which used to make dealing with Shipito more economical. But my experiences are 20 years ago.
Had a quick look at the BR-1 at Wagners. Crossover looks very simple.
Paul Carmody's designs (e.g. Classix II) are well respected. But I haven't yet tried to compare his various designs against each other.
Had a quick look around LSK. Will definitely check them out further. Not sure how to find comments and reviews on their own LSK kits.

I'd love to do a build from scratch again, but I'm completely out of touch with current drivers, etc. so even just selecting drivers would be a whole new learning curve. Cabinet design is still fairly clear in my mind, but crossover design would be a real challenge (even though I love that sort of thing).

Thanks eveyone. I have a lot of research to do. 😎
 
but after some travelling have spent the last 40 years in sunny Queensland
You get shorter sentences than that for multiple murder.
Seriously, I'll be in the region a lot soon as my business partner lives just north of BrisVegas. I'm not far south of the border.

For your budget and your tooling, buy secondhand or buy something like the Adam T5V which you're going to struggle to better for the money spent and can be had for $A800ish new. DIY is only worth it if you get better performance for the money than you can buy complete, or you enjoy building and have the tools and skillset.
 
Hi Nordo

We have friends in Trafalgar, so I know the area. Unfortunately, Yallourn no longer exists, it was demolished to allow access to brown coal.

If you're worried about rebates, you could always choose a design with a Peerless SDS or HDS woofer, as they flush mount! Match that with a Vifa TC7 or TC9 small full range driver and there are no rebates at all...but I think a dome tweeter will sound better and they do need to be flush mounted: there are ways of doing that without a router, of course.

For my Classix II - before I bought a router - I cut a piece of thin plywood to the baffle size, carefully measured the tweeter location, then used a hole saw the same size as the tweeter outside diameter to fit over the tweeter flange, then glued the ply onto the cabinet. The inevitable mistakes are covered by the speaker grille!

If you buy from overseas you will be spending much of your budget on freight and currency dealers and you won't get value for money. As mentioned above, s/h might be better value.

It should be possible to find a local bod or handyman to do the cabinets for you. Professional cabinet makers are expensive, if indeed they're interested in the job - few are, at least, here. I had a quote for $1300 for my 'Slapshot' MTM cabinets and then a family friend made them, very well, for $520 with veneered and finished MDF.

In Melbourne we have something called "The Grey Army", retired tradies who work as a hobby and charge less than normal, maybe you have something similar there? Worth some research.

Speakerbug in Brisbane provide reasonable price and excellent service on crossover parts. LSK and Wagner are pretty much the same company (same address); once you factor in the $A to $US exchange rate and shipping from the US or UK, their driver prices are OK. Digikey.com.au usually has good prices but I haven't dealt with them, they are cheaper than LSK/Wagner on many items. Mixed reviews on their service.

Here's a floor standing project which has been widely built and well reviewed - nothing against any of the designers or projects mentioned above, but an example of what you could build with locally sourced bits:

https://sites.google.com/site/undefinition/floorstanding-speakers/classix2-5
Driver cost, about $300; crossover cost, depending on how flash you want to get, about $160. Binding posts and ports, about $50. MDF CNC cut to size, about $150. Acrylic stuffing from Spotlight, $12. Total cost if you can make the cabinets, around $700, at least, I think so. Plus your time and swear word output.

Stand mount, you could look at Wolf's "Zingers", a smaller speaker but a two way with an 8" woofer: I'm not sure if the tweeter is available here, but. Similar driver cost but simpler and less expensive crossover. I don't think the drivers for his Nephila are locally available.

Bearing in mind your listening habits, which are similar to ours, there are heaps of good designs from which to choose: TMs, MTMs, TMMs. If you build stand-mounted, of course the stands will be $$ unless you make them, and that will eat into your budget. I suggest do your research, short list what you like and has been well reviewed and widely built, and check if the drivers are available here.

I realise that limits you to the brands listed above, but that's a pretty good selection.

Good luck

Geoff
 
Jeff's designs are very, very highly regarded. One of his designs features Vifa and SB Acoustics drivers:

https://caritasaudio.com/
It was originally offered through Meniscus Audio:

https://meniscusaudio.com/product/caritas-full-kit-pair/
Reviews were very good, especially considering the $$; the woofers aren't commercially available as far as I know, and there's no flat pack. Depending on freight, worth an optic?

Geoff
 
You get shorter sentences than that for multiple murder.
Seriously, I'll be in the region a lot soon as my business partner lives just north of BrisVegas. I'm not far south of the border.

For your budget and your tooling, buy secondhand or buy something like the Adam T5V which you're going to struggle to better for the money spent and can be had for $A800ish new. DIY is only worth it if you get better performance for the money than you can buy complete, or you enjoy building and have the tools and skillset.
Hi Brett
You don't say where exactly your business partner lives by I'm in Landsborough which is about 1 hour north of Brisbane.

I've always liked to build my own speakers and subs.
Last speakers I bought were my first proper speakers, from Encel Electronics in the late 60's.
However the Adam T5Vs look interesting, so I'll definitely do some research.
 
Wow, lots of responses. Thanks🙂

Everyone has confirmed my initial short list of Designers - Paul Carmody and Jeff Bagby (and perhaps Wolf).
Most of Paul's designs are within my budget. But I would like to hopefully extend the budget to include some of Jeff's designs.
That will depend on SWMBO and local availability of parts (I'm taking Geoff Millar's recommendations to buy locally).

Actually cutting MDF and constructing the cabinets doesn't worry me, but I don't have anything to cut the driver rebates.
I could go Geoff Millar's way (ply doubler or direct mount), but I have now found out that where I am currently living, there are plenty of woodworker hobbists. So getting someone to cut in the rebates shouldn't be as big a problem as I first thought.

I like most of Paul's and Jeff's designs, but it's hard to find comparisons within their designs e.g Paul's Classix II vs Overnight Sensations, so I can create a short list and an eventual winner.

@GeoffMillar - Thanks for all the helpful advice and also the Aussie suppliers.
I think I will definitely take your advice and buy locally.
I already have stands (Currently using some of my HT DIY surround speakers on the stands for the living room stereo).
We moved house about 12 months ago and I lost my purpose-built Home Theatre and everything that went with it.
Initially I was thinking of stand mount speakers, but towers should only cost a little more and actually could end up having more WAF. 😉
BTW, I lived in Yallourn from the age of 3 til I was around 23. Sad to see such a beautiful town disappear.
I worked for Narracan Council in Trafalgar in the late 60's and even played football for Trafalgar. Got to know many of the people who lived in Trafalgar.

Thanks again everyone.
 
Sorry, just had a thought.

If I decide on a Jeff Bagby design, can I just buy the design, and then hopefully buy all the parts in Australia?
Paul C has the full spec for each of his designs on his website, but I can't find anything similar for Jeff's designs.
 
As far as I know, Mr Bagby's designs are only commercially available, i.e. plans are only available with the purchase of the kit.

As far as I know, his "Solstice" (high end Morel TMM from Parts Express) and the Caritas are the only freely available designs. You could contact Meniscus and ask them, though, couldn't do any harm.

At the risk of confusing your choice, you could also check out Curt Campbell's website:

http://speakerdesignworks.com/index_page_2.html
I've built two of Curt's designs - Tritrix and Slapshot MTMs - and they're both excellent speakers at different price points. Both feature simple yet effective crossovers and would be excellent for your listening preferences, with the Tritrix being much cheaper but less refined and detailed. Most drivers for his projects are available locally. Drivers for the Tritrix would cost about $A260. The Slapshots use Morel tweeters, which aren't available here.

I haven't seen any reviews of recent LSK kits, so can't advise you there. In terms of how a designer's projects compare sound-wise, you should look at the various customer reviews and the designers' build notes. I've found that they're spot on in terms of the pros and cons of each design.

Unfortunately, some of the drivers in the projects you've highlighted - Hi Vi in the Overnite Sensations, for example - aren't locally available.

I remember Encel Stereo, even met Alex twice, a really nice bloke. We bought all our stereo gear from there until he had to close the business. Even when he 'made it' he used to wear jeans and jumpers: the story goes that he went into a Rolls Royce showroom and got the bum's rush as he looked too casual. He went down the road, bought the top spec Mercedes, then re-visited the RR dealer as an 'up yours' gesture!

Geoff
 
@GeoffMillar - My Encel salesman was Ken Hutchinson, who I went to school with in Yallourn.
In hindsight, the gear was crap, but it was my first real stereo, and I loved it.

I'll look into Curt's Tritrix (you know you're really not helping me. 😛 ).
I'm starting to get to the pointy end, where my aims are :-
1. Bang for buck.
2. Parts available in Australia.
3. Clear sound stage.
 
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You don't say where exactly your business partner lives
Kippa
2. Parts available in Australia.
I wouldn't let that be an issue if you find a design that you like. Looking at the components in my systems, or those I've built in recent years, almost none have been sourced locally except for some drivers I picked up S/H that someone else had nicely imported for me. The designs you're looking at are using relatively small drivers that aren't that heavy so postage won't be too bad a sting. Even with the calamity that shipping is out of the US ATM, small items through post/USP/Fedex/DHL etc that move by air are still coming through OK, if a tad slower than usual. Larger items like our CNC are another issue.
Caps are usually easy to obtain locally, but coils can sometimes be an issue and may even be an issue with some O/S sources not having stock either.
 
I wouldn't let that be an issue if you find a design that you like. Looking at the components in my systems, or those I've built in recent years, almost none have been sourced locally except for some drivers I picked up S/H that someone else had nicely imported for me. The designs you're looking at are using relatively small drivers that aren't that heavy so postage won't be too bad a sting. Even with the calamity that shipping is out of the US ATM, small items through post/USP/Fedex/DHL etc that move by air are still coming through OK, if a tad slower than usual. Larger items like our CNC are another issue.
Caps are usually easy to obtain locally, but coils can sometimes be an issue and may even be an issue with some O/S sources not having stock either.
In the past, I've have always bought from the States and used Shipito to transfer the order to me.
However Geoff Millar has convinced me to seriously look at the economics of buying from Australian suppliers vs the additional cost of Shipito, etc.