best resistor
I've pretty much switched over to the Dayton noninductives. I participated in a blind A-B test with the Daytons up against Mills, and there was noooooooo difference. Plus, the leads on the Daytons are very easy to work with, and, unlike the Madisound Eagles, the value is actually printed on them. I've grown to hate the Eagles--the leads break off with even a little use, and who can remember the color coding scheme?
I've pretty much switched over to the Dayton noninductives. I participated in a blind A-B test with the Daytons up against Mills, and there was noooooooo difference. Plus, the leads on the Daytons are very easy to work with, and, unlike the Madisound Eagles, the value is actually printed on them. I've grown to hate the Eagles--the leads break off with even a little use, and who can remember the color coding scheme?
Well, if the resistor is in series with an inductor, a plain vanilla wirewound does just fine. The kind with a finned aluminum body are really nice for higher power work and can be bolted to a metal surface to help dissipation. I've used Ohmite and Dale with great satisfaction.
When low inductance is important (e.g., tweeter padding), the foil power resistors (TO220ish package) from Digikey work really well. I think they're made by Ohmite. I also used some from Caddock and they were just fine, too.
When low inductance is important (e.g., tweeter padding), the foil power resistors (TO220ish package) from Digikey work really well. I think they're made by Ohmite. I also used some from Caddock and they were just fine, too.
Hmmm. I'm new to the group and can't tell whether you're being serious or not. But either way, I certainly don't mind reporting, and acting on, the results of a carefully conducted blind test. I'm more than happy to admit I can't hear a difference if I can't hear a difference. And all the money I save ($3 a pop) adds up to cash for components that do count.
Which "you" are you referring to? If it's me, I can tell you I haven't done any serious blind testing on crossover resistors, but used basic engineering principles to choose them. I verified my choices with measurement and uncontrolled listening tests; I stopped doing controlled blind tests on audio equipment years ago. This is a hobby for me, and proper controlled tests are difficult and tedious to set up.
If you mean Charlie, remember, he builds and sells high-end equipment for a living; in that world, blind testing and verification are not good for business. I don't have any personal experience with his stuff, but Charlie seems to be a very smart guy and his equipment has an excellent reputation, so don't read these comments as any kind of slam against him or his company. Quite the opposite.
If you mean Charlie, remember, he builds and sells high-end equipment for a living; in that world, blind testing and verification are not good for business. I don't have any personal experience with his stuff, but Charlie seems to be a very smart guy and his equipment has an excellent reputation, so don't read these comments as any kind of slam against him or his company. Quite the opposite.
I was replying to Charlie--the post above mine. I don't have any problem with taking power handling and heat dissipation into account. And I'm not saying everyone has to run out and organize, or participate in, blind tests. They are difficult to design, implement, and suffer through. But since I had already done it, I thought it was worth reporting the results. It wasn't a close call. No one could hear any difference on any music.
The whole subject of high end crossover components drives me a little nutty, There are so many claims, so many high prices, and so little documentation. I recently ordered a pair of Usher S520 loudspeakers for a friend because they are offered in a white cabinet, which she insisted on. The base price was $400 a pair, shipping included. Very reasonable given the build quality. The retailer also offered an "upgraded" version for an extra $350 that used super premium caps, coils, wire, and I think Mills resistors. After about one minute of listening it was obvious that the crossover simply didn't include enough baffle step compensation, and the tweeter was running too hot. Measurements confirmed that, and I redid the crossover--it now makes music. But I pity the poor buyers who shelled out $350 to replace perfectly adequate components in an inadequate crossover.
The whole subject of high end crossover components drives me a little nutty, There are so many claims, so many high prices, and so little documentation. I recently ordered a pair of Usher S520 loudspeakers for a friend because they are offered in a white cabinet, which she insisted on. The base price was $400 a pair, shipping included. Very reasonable given the build quality. The retailer also offered an "upgraded" version for an extra $350 that used super premium caps, coils, wire, and I think Mills resistors. After about one minute of listening it was obvious that the crossover simply didn't include enough baffle step compensation, and the tweeter was running too hot. Measurements confirmed that, and I redid the crossover--it now makes music. But I pity the poor buyers who shelled out $350 to replace perfectly adequate components in an inadequate crossover.
I think it's perfectly reasonable to post negative results. The File-Drawer Effect is a real one and quite important to avoid.
Economist? Washington? Oh, my.
Actually, there are a lot of good published tests out there in serious journals (e.g., JAES). It's just that in high end audio circles, it's more fashionable to either ignore them or disparage them without offering actual evidence. Anecdote and bald assertions form the high end junta; disagree and you'll be called deaf, insensitive, closed-minded and be sent to re-education camp.
Actually, there are a lot of good published tests out there in serious journals (e.g., JAES). It's just that in high end audio circles, it's more fashionable to either ignore them or disparage them without offering actual evidence. Anecdote and bald assertions form the high end junta; disagree and you'll be called deaf, insensitive, closed-minded and be sent to re-education camp.
Someone asked "What resistors are best?". (I would have to assume that he was referring to sound quality, because I don't think there are any unreliable resistors out there that we should be avoiding.) Then four different people posted "they all sound the same to me" (or the equivalent).
I just don't see how this is helpful to the original poster. What's worse, this attitude of "they all sound the same" carries an implication that anyone who does hear a difference is deluded, which would tend to discourage any useful contributions to this thread.
I'd still like to hear from anyone who has a useful contribution to the original question -- "What resistors sound best for loudspeaker crossovers?"
I just don't see how this is helpful to the original poster. What's worse, this attitude of "they all sound the same" carries an implication that anyone who does hear a difference is deluded, which would tend to discourage any useful contributions to this thread.
I'd still like to hear from anyone who has a useful contribution to the original question -- "What resistors sound best for loudspeaker crossovers?"
Beatifully put. Lately it has been dawning on me that some people just don't want audio to be an engineering based field. They want it to be a magical journey of tweaking, perpetual upgrading, and a neverending quest for synergy. The fact is - if audio is an engineering based field, then after a certain level of performane in any one area, further upgrades/purhcases are not justified on a sound quality basis - which would mean an end to scrimping, the saving, the anticipation, the research, and finally the sweet upgrade thrill of the upgrade. The very worst cases will fetishize some single component and spend disproportionately on it, leading to $500 interconnects hooked up to cheap polk speakers, $100 capacitors in speakers using $20 drivers, or the purchase of a $10000 CD player before doing any room treatment! Its this kind of thing that makes me cringe when someone refers to me as an 'audiophile'
Charles Hansen said:
You make several assumptions here; if there are any actual controlled studies showing that resistor factors other than inductance, power, tolerance, TCR, and the like are audible when used in crossovers, please cite them. I'd sure like to know about it. I gave the examples of several resistors that I have experimentally found to work well in crossovers.
You don't think it's useful when someone with an opinion contrary to yours expresses it?
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