Hello,
In a world of engineers i'm a tad shocked to don't see any good decoupling, the mecanical engineers are not all dead since i've recentely be teached by one of them and my last school teacher was also an engenneer (with a PhD in mecanics)... he was young 25 years ago.
People are using CAD and FDM printers here and no one seems able to decouple convenientely a loudspeaker, could you say what i don't understand ?
Aliexpress is full of strange spikes and ridiculous spring systems, are we all idiots ?
Here is a SMR for a microphone :
In a world of engineers i'm a tad shocked to don't see any good decoupling, the mecanical engineers are not all dead since i've recentely be teached by one of them and my last school teacher was also an engenneer (with a PhD in mecanics)... he was young 25 years ago.
People are using CAD and FDM printers here and no one seems able to decouple convenientely a loudspeaker, could you say what i don't understand ?
Aliexpress is full of strange spikes and ridiculous spring systems, are we all idiots ?
Here is a SMR for a microphone :
What is it that you wnat to decouple from what? State the two objects and the problem with no decoupling, please.
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It's an interesting subject because some of the expensive audiophile isolators actually do work in passively isolating a speaker from, say, a sprung floor but others don't by being too stiff or being dampers. Curiously one is unlikely to be able to spot which ones work from the marketing provided by the audiophile accessory companies because it is likely to be of exactly the same type as that used for the other audiophile accessories (i.e. full of associations for the nontechnical to make but largely free of relevant technical information). Perhaps presenting a valid technical case would prompt questions about the validity of the other accessories, the price asked or maybe whether an expensive audiophile accessory actually works or not in a physical sense is wholly irrelevant to the business.
Maybe you don't understand Conservation of Momentum (m1v1=m2v2)? And that manufacturers cannot simply add extra mass due to shipping weight.
The choice of the masses naturally orient the people on the good solutions, today the ability for everyone to print complex parts should open the field of the customized solution no ?
@Andersonix
I don't talk about commercial propducts, ony customized solution on requirements, perhaps i don't understand the m1v1=m2v2, but i don't fear to explain things with simple words in order to be understanded by everyone and i don't know how adding mass can be a solution for a good decoupling.
If the loudspeaker floor surface is inadequate for vibrations and weight, what do you do ?
Air seems great at absorbing energy from vibrating surfaces, at least orthogonally.
Generally I'm not one to spend a lot of effort on finishing touches (too many coats of lacquer, >200 grit sanding, protective grilles...), but I like the concept of suspending speaker boxes by 3-or-so pieces of fishing line or nylon guitar string.
If there is any angular vibration because the speaker is off-centre or the box mass is unbalanced, tension forces could still transmit vibrations to other objects like a string telephone. But if the box and speaker are well-balanced, the decoupling could be superb and highly linear.
On the other hand, I imagine a possible advantage of the "maximum coupling" camp with pointed spikes, is that highly unbalanced boxes (e.g. a tower with woofers near the floor) are kept more steady, reducing misalignment of the voice coil.
Generally I'm not one to spend a lot of effort on finishing touches (too many coats of lacquer, >200 grit sanding, protective grilles...), but I like the concept of suspending speaker boxes by 3-or-so pieces of fishing line or nylon guitar string.
If there is any angular vibration because the speaker is off-centre or the box mass is unbalanced, tension forces could still transmit vibrations to other objects like a string telephone. But if the box and speaker are well-balanced, the decoupling could be superb and highly linear.
On the other hand, I imagine a possible advantage of the "maximum coupling" camp with pointed spikes, is that highly unbalanced boxes (e.g. a tower with woofers near the floor) are kept more steady, reducing misalignment of the voice coil.
Hello i'm doubting that the air will absorb a signifiant amount of energy unless you attach some large sails on the cabinets, the vibrations are transmitted to the roof IMHO.
A clever desing is as light as possible, weight is totally useless and undesirable, you just have to equilibrate your forces, but if you must use only one woofer on a desktop or a thin wooden flooring the energy have to be dissipated.
I was thinking at a modern design, that works IRL.
A clever desing is as light as possible, weight is totally useless and undesirable, you just have to equilibrate your forces, but if you must use only one woofer on a desktop or a thin wooden flooring the energy have to be dissipated.
I was thinking at a modern design, that works IRL.
Hi, use spring that makes resonator with the mass. To decouple, natural frequency of the (decoupling) system needs to be below the (loudspeaker) system frequency response, like at 10Hz or so, what ever. You can dampen it as well, if you wish. It's not too difficult to come up with as it's quite easy math. Just figure out whats your spring constant and how much deflection needed to get the resonance that low with mass you have. If the spring becomes impossible, add mass. Then do a mechanical design that implements it. Now it's decoupled.
Idea with the spikes is to maximally couple with the floor, to increase weight enormously. One could just let your floor resonate with the speaker, it can be quite much fun as well as feet feel the vibrations, tactile experience. What ever fits the bill.
Quick examples and physics by searching web with "spring vibration isolator".
Idea with the spikes is to maximally couple with the floor, to increase weight enormously. One could just let your floor resonate with the speaker, it can be quite much fun as well as feet feel the vibrations, tactile experience. What ever fits the bill.
Quick examples and physics by searching web with "spring vibration isolator".
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Aliexpress wants to sell (whatever it is).
We want to make good sound reproduction systems.
In my opinion:
Decoupling a mic is important to avoid any bumps to the mic stand or other vibrations of a building (steps on the floor, AC machines etc) to enter the mic and being amplified.
A speaker is completely different, you rather want it to be firmly attached to the floor, so vibrations are absorbed by the heavy building.
It may be different if you have speakers standing on a resonating table, desk or light floor construction.
Air absorbs very little energy when sound travels through it plus the large impedance mismatch between air and wood means little energy is transferred. On the other hand what is needed to decouple speakers from the floor is a soft spring not damping and a good and cheap way to achieve it is using bike inner turbes as air springs.
AH ah I remember that it was in the first post about the requirements for a SOTA 3 way but it was readily dismissed after few pages: condemed to oblium.
I haven't simulated the deflections since i dont have the loudspeakers units models, but after years of RC car competition (in the 90') i have enough experience to tune a damper, two springs and a silent block is simple and easy to tune under 20Hz.
I don't know what should be the interest to have a high precision model for a such large window especially when i don't have the money to make my own polymer and must use standard components.
@andy19191
Air tubes are damped by their own material called butyl, it is one of the most absorbtive material on earth and this is partially why it is still used in the bicycles wheels. Have you tried latex air tubes on your bicycle ? they will shake your body and be disconfortable.
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Decoupling would be beneficial in those situations where loudspeaker vibration is transmitted through the floor and was creating some audible problem. But I think this is rare? yes? Most of the time, there is no vibrating floors and no audible problems. So a decoupling mechanism would unneeded complexity, at best... At worst, it could introduce other unforeseen problems.
The decoupling would reduce the membrane vibrations as the membrane pushes the case the case yelld resulting in impeded frequencies.
The cabinet should not move horizontally at all.
The cabinet should not move horizontally at all.
If you "decouple" the loudspeaker via a soft interface, the speaker is going to wobble... is that good?
So what is the purpose for your desired decoupling? To reduce transfered energy to not disturb the neighbours? Get rid of excited energy in the cabinet? If so why?
The only way to get rid of vibration is to turn it into heat.... best is to not start it to begin with.... i.e. its is only the entity that is suppose to vibrate that shall vibrate.. (read: speaker cone)
So?
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So what is the purpose for your desired decoupling? To reduce transfered energy to not disturb the neighbours? Get rid of excited energy in the cabinet? If so why?
The only way to get rid of vibration is to turn it into heat.... best is to not start it to begin with.... i.e. its is only the entity that is suppose to vibrate that shall vibrate.. (read: speaker cone)
So?
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I think this discussion illustrates the answer to OP's question quite well. There is no real agreement on how to solve this problem, or indeed, whether it is a problem at all.
In my opinion, if I had a thick heavy floor, I would try to couple my cabinets to it via spikes or similar. If my floor was prone to vibration, I would attempt to decouple it. But exactly how best to do that without impacting my speaker drivers is still a question. I am not aware of an investigation that has shown this definitely as of yet.
In my opinion, if I had a thick heavy floor, I would try to couple my cabinets to it via spikes or similar. If my floor was prone to vibration, I would attempt to decouple it. But exactly how best to do that without impacting my speaker drivers is still a question. I am not aware of an investigation that has shown this definitely as of yet.
