Beside Fostex can you guys recommend any fullrange driver that has 100dB or more sensitivity ?
I saw China brand but not quite 100dB, I have 0.8Watt Amp tube ... so I need this to replace my broken Coral 100dB speaker. 🙁
I hope somebody already make one !
thanks
cal
I saw China brand but not quite 100dB, I have 0.8Watt Amp tube ... so I need this to replace my broken Coral 100dB speaker. 🙁
I hope somebody already make one !
thanks
cal
Two questions:
1- Define "affordable" - everyone's definition varies on this one.
2- What is your current amplifier? tube or solid-state? - possibly a way to increase it by a few dB and open up your options a bit.
Regards, KM
1- Define "affordable" - everyone's definition varies on this one.
2- What is your current amplifier? tube or solid-state? - possibly a way to increase it by a few dB and open up your options a bit.
Regards, KM
You're not asking for much... 😉
Nothing Lowther make meet that. The DX3&4, & the PM2 & 4 get closest, at around 98db 1w/1m, and they're not what you'd call affordable. AER claim over 100db sensitivity, but they're a) just as expensive, and b) the claim, judging from the T/S parameters on their own site, is wildly optimistic, at least for the MK1 (I'm not going to go through all of them, checking).
Nothing Fostex make meets that kind of sensitivity either. From the factory specs., the defunct limited edition FE206ES-R gets closest, at ~98db, & the FE208ESigma wide-band driver manages 97db but again, they're not going to be cheap. The regular 8in Fostex units (206/7 & FF225K) make ~96db. Same goes for the 8 - 12in Audio Nirvanas, which hover around this region.
The largest Supravox & Fertin field coils, at the appropriate setting, just scrape it, but you'd likely need a second morgage to get your hands on these, to say nothing of very large boxes.
Nothing Lowther make meet that. The DX3&4, & the PM2 & 4 get closest, at around 98db 1w/1m, and they're not what you'd call affordable. AER claim over 100db sensitivity, but they're a) just as expensive, and b) the claim, judging from the T/S parameters on their own site, is wildly optimistic, at least for the MK1 (I'm not going to go through all of them, checking).
Nothing Fostex make meets that kind of sensitivity either. From the factory specs., the defunct limited edition FE206ES-R gets closest, at ~98db, & the FE208ESigma wide-band driver manages 97db but again, they're not going to be cheap. The regular 8in Fostex units (206/7 & FF225K) make ~96db. Same goes for the 8 - 12in Audio Nirvanas, which hover around this region.
The largest Supravox & Fertin field coils, at the appropriate setting, just scrape it, but you'd likely need a second morgage to get your hands on these, to say nothing of very large boxes.
http://www.emspeaker.fr/home_ger.html
I dont know much about this one, but 750EUR seems ok fore a pair of 12" quality driver
Or maybe you can find something here http://www.spectrumaudio.de/
I dont know much about this one, but 750EUR seems ok fore a pair of 12" quality driver
Or maybe you can find something here http://www.spectrumaudio.de/
I got the price from emailing Katy Fertin some time ago
Ofcourse its fore the standard LB12 and not the fieldcoil...I also got an offer of 1200EUR fore 4 drivers
BEYMA 12AG100 could be a more affordable and interesting 12" alternative, but I am not sure if its still available as it doesnt appear on Beyma site, but only at Breitbandlautsprecher
Calico88, I see now that you may not be in EU ???
Ofcourse its fore the standard LB12 and not the fieldcoil...I also got an offer of 1200EUR fore 4 drivers
BEYMA 12AG100 could be a more affordable and interesting 12" alternative, but I am not sure if its still available as it doesnt appear on Beyma site, but only at Breitbandlautsprecher
Calico88, I see now that you may not be in EU ???
$59 USD and 97.7 db 1w/1m (an honest 97.7, in most companies terms, it would be higher).
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/psho...0-409&FTR=12lt&CFID=10672202&CFTOKEN=98464076
Here's a project with it:
http://www.fortunecity.com/rivendell/xentar/1179/projects/afterburner/Afterburner.html
As you can see, you'd need a big box (maybe an OB?), a notch filter and a super tweeter (I hear some pjanda1 guy even has a pair like those in the above link on ebay right now😉. At db/$$ though, its got to be the champ.
pj
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/psho...0-409&FTR=12lt&CFID=10672202&CFTOKEN=98464076
Here's a project with it:
http://www.fortunecity.com/rivendell/xentar/1179/projects/afterburner/Afterburner.html
As you can see, you'd need a big box (maybe an OB?), a notch filter and a super tweeter (I hear some pjanda1 guy even has a pair like those in the above link on ebay right now😉. At db/$$ though, its got to be the champ.
pj
Eminence Beta-12LTA 12...
More and more i am warming up to this driver. Seems like a full range veteran. Question, how might this driver compare with the non wizzer 12 inch Eminence drivers? I have been considering a project using a non wizzer 12 eminence plus compression tweeter crossed over low (1.2 to 1.5k) vs the 12lta with a super tweeter crossed much higher (around 7 to 9k).
These types of speakers are interesting to me:
http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/hug/messages/13/135964.html
http://www.wardsweb.org/audio/Altec/model19.jpg
More and more i am warming up to this driver. Seems like a full range veteran. Question, how might this driver compare with the non wizzer 12 inch Eminence drivers? I have been considering a project using a non wizzer 12 eminence plus compression tweeter crossed over low (1.2 to 1.5k) vs the 12lta with a super tweeter crossed much higher (around 7 to 9k).
These types of speakers are interesting to me:
http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/hug/messages/13/135964.html
http://www.wardsweb.org/audio/Altec/model19.jpg
Any opinion on the P.Audio drivers...? they seem to be just affordable, well at least the 8" ones, and also in that 100db ballpark.
Affordable 100db FR Driver
Cal,
The choice of a 0.8w tube amp to power an audio system is nearly always quite deliberate. On balance you have evidently chosen this amplifier based on an evaluation of its advantages and drawbacks. Undoubtedly, the quality of sound from your audio system is important to you. The sound characteristics of the speakers is very likely going to be very important. Choosing speakers based on efficiency alone (or as the primary criterion) is unlikely to result in the sound quality that is most pleasing to you.
Given your budgetary constraints (affordable), the rarity of full range drivers with 100db (or higher) sensitivity, and the (presumed) requirement for most pleasing sound quality, you may want to consider a lower the sensitivity requirement (say 95db) and audition (or at least read comments about) the qualifying drivers. If it is felt that 100db (or more) sensitivity is required, then consider front loading (DIY).
Most of the reasonable candidates have been mentioned in previous posts. In addition to the Eminence Beta 12LTA, the EV LS-12 and SP-12B, Cadrad 12 inch dual cone (#?), and JBL D-123 are also worth considering. All of these will benefit (need?) a supertweeter. You have not mentioned any size constraints, but these 12-inchers will require fairly large enclosures (several cubic feet). However, all are good candidates for OB use. I find their sound is cut from the same cloth as the Pioneer B20: quite pleasing, but incapable of delivering the fine detail, micro dynamics and harmonic richness that a low power, high quality SET amp can deliver. The Fostex drivers will do a much better job of delivering these qualities, especially the smaller ones. Of course, if you consider Lowthers to be affordable then you have many more candidates.
Good luck with your search,
Bob
Cal,
The choice of a 0.8w tube amp to power an audio system is nearly always quite deliberate. On balance you have evidently chosen this amplifier based on an evaluation of its advantages and drawbacks. Undoubtedly, the quality of sound from your audio system is important to you. The sound characteristics of the speakers is very likely going to be very important. Choosing speakers based on efficiency alone (or as the primary criterion) is unlikely to result in the sound quality that is most pleasing to you.
Given your budgetary constraints (affordable), the rarity of full range drivers with 100db (or higher) sensitivity, and the (presumed) requirement for most pleasing sound quality, you may want to consider a lower the sensitivity requirement (say 95db) and audition (or at least read comments about) the qualifying drivers. If it is felt that 100db (or more) sensitivity is required, then consider front loading (DIY).
Most of the reasonable candidates have been mentioned in previous posts. In addition to the Eminence Beta 12LTA, the EV LS-12 and SP-12B, Cadrad 12 inch dual cone (#?), and JBL D-123 are also worth considering. All of these will benefit (need?) a supertweeter. You have not mentioned any size constraints, but these 12-inchers will require fairly large enclosures (several cubic feet). However, all are good candidates for OB use. I find their sound is cut from the same cloth as the Pioneer B20: quite pleasing, but incapable of delivering the fine detail, micro dynamics and harmonic richness that a low power, high quality SET amp can deliver. The Fostex drivers will do a much better job of delivering these qualities, especially the smaller ones. Of course, if you consider Lowthers to be affordable then you have many more candidates.
Good luck with your search,
Bob
>>> I find their sound is cut from the same cloth as the Pioneer B20...
Thank you for this comment.
Thank you for this comment.
If you are basing the 100 dB on a Coral spec sheet then subtract 6 dB, or so, as they used the 1.0 watt/.5 meter method VS the contemporary1.0 watt/1.0 meter method.
I use vintage Stephens Trusonic 80FR and Coral 8TX-1 which are both in the 96-97 dB range (1.0 meter method).
The 8TX-1 was spec'd @ 102 dB @ 1.0 watt/.5 meter.
This may broaden your choices, though the easier to drive the better.
I use vintage Stephens Trusonic 80FR and Coral 8TX-1 which are both in the 96-97 dB range (1.0 meter method).
The 8TX-1 was spec'd @ 102 dB @ 1.0 watt/.5 meter.
This may broaden your choices, though the easier to drive the better.
pjanda1 said:
This has piqued my curiosity considering I have a shelf full of those RS super tweeters.
DeKay said:
I suspected this, though I didn't want to say it without proof. That means you've got a few choices under $100-150 each that are more efficient than your old the old Coral. The Eminence will have a large advantage in sensitivity, though I doubt it will be as smooth. I haven't heard one; I just recommended it as it seemed to fit the bill. Of course, at that sensitivity you haven't got many choices for super tweeters. The RS/Fostex is right on the money, but must be figured into the cost. 'Zilla has had such great luck with piezos that I wonder if one couldn't be used in a budget rig with the 12lt.
pj
I assume this is not a nearfiel monitor..........
96db is do able at 1w/1m
4 vertical curved array can be made near $100........
Ideally you'd need 4 drivers wired series parallel each with 90db.
Not many small drivers fit that bill.
Most 3" have s[l near 85db 1w/1m
Maybe the afterburner project with the 12lta will work great for you.
http://www.fortunecity.com/rivendell/xentar/1179/projects/afterburner/Afterburner.html
That 12" may work but you may prefer the detail of small drivers.
The pioneer a11 4.5" can work.
That freq response graph look like it was tested in a box witout baffle step.
I'd call it 90db 1w/1m
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=290-010
http://www.partsexpress.com/pdf/290-010g.pdf
It is a copy of the bose 901 driver.
96db is do able at 1w/1m
4 vertical curved array can be made near $100........
Ideally you'd need 4 drivers wired series parallel each with 90db.
Not many small drivers fit that bill.
Most 3" have s[l near 85db 1w/1m
Maybe the afterburner project with the 12lta will work great for you.
http://www.fortunecity.com/rivendell/xentar/1179/projects/afterburner/Afterburner.html
That 12" may work but you may prefer the detail of small drivers.
The pioneer a11 4.5" can work.
That freq response graph look like it was tested in a box witout baffle step.
I'd call it 90db 1w/1m
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=290-010
http://www.partsexpress.com/pdf/290-010g.pdf
It is a copy of the bose 901 driver.
I haven't seen any responses yet from Cal to the suggestions, nor to what he considers affordable.
Certainly a good value, whether it fits into that "affordable" range, would be the Hammer Dynamics. It seems to be really popular with SET users, and has a lot of support on the web. There must be some owners out there who could say whether or not that low-powered tube amp would be enough.
http://www.hammerdynamics.com/
http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0600/super12.htm
Certainly a good value, whether it fits into that "affordable" range, would be the Hammer Dynamics. It seems to be really popular with SET users, and has a lot of support on the web. There must be some owners out there who could say whether or not that low-powered tube amp would be enough.
http://www.hammerdynamics.com/
http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0600/super12.htm
um, that hammer kit costs $650, I think it was $600 a year ago.
since they were special order, as soon as they are gone, they are gone, unless you want eminence to build 1000 of them for you.
http://www.hammerdynamics.com/
click on details..........
Contacts
Colleen Wyckoff
P.O. Box 1009
Magdalena, N.M. 87825
(575) 854-2370
hopcanyon@gilanet.com
"Prices
$650 including S/H & insurance within the Continental U.S.
Notes:
Despite rising costs of materials, Hammer Dynamics has not raised their kit price in over 5 years.
International customers, please contact info@hammerdynamics for an exact quote. "
Yea the orignal poster is mia, but that gives us an excuse to keep discussing...............and maybe someone someday will do a search and learn something.
Norman
since they were special order, as soon as they are gone, they are gone, unless you want eminence to build 1000 of them for you.
http://www.hammerdynamics.com/
click on details..........
Contacts
Colleen Wyckoff
P.O. Box 1009
Magdalena, N.M. 87825
(575) 854-2370
hopcanyon@gilanet.com
"Prices
$650 including S/H & insurance within the Continental U.S.
Notes:
Despite rising costs of materials, Hammer Dynamics has not raised their kit price in over 5 years.
International customers, please contact info@hammerdynamics for an exact quote. "
Yea the orignal poster is mia, but that gives us an excuse to keep discussing...............and maybe someone someday will do a search and learn something.
Norman
Perhaps the most reasonable thing to do in the long run is get more watts!!! There are some highly regarded tube amps that are affordable and worthy of most any speaker, cheap or insane$$$$$$$.. I'm not sure what the big draw of a .8 watt amp is???, seems very limiting to me, even with high sens drivers... I have 6 watts per side of tube power and get along fine using 90db drivers, but I don't expect to throw a party etc ,and I'm looking forward to purchasing higher sens drivers one day for sure.. I know the AER MK1 drivers are stated to have 102.5db sens I think, and they have some rave reviews, but hardly in the cheap zone at $2400 a pair Canadian... I'd say get a different amp and have more options in your speaker driver life😀
Dave🙂
Dave🙂
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