Coming back to my favourite website after a couple of months of heavy work with very limited time, I'm somewhat shocked about what happened here...
People I once new as great personalities, generously sharing their knowledge, suddenly start attacking each other as if they were the leaders of opposing parties during an election campaign...
People who once helped others getting their projects right randomly hijack other's threads and start off-topic flame wars...
Things that formerly were widely accepted suddenly raise critic, even hate...
Diyaudio no longer is the cosy place it used to be. I'm getting tired of having to scroll past flame wars to the next on-topic post.
The purpose of this place is to share knowledge. It doesn't make sense to me at all when I read (even though not addressed to me) "Hey, I've gained this experience through many year's hard work, and now you expect me to tell you which transistor to select?" Well, yes, I do. At least a little hint. Learning from others is what this place is all about. If everybody had to start from scratch, we wouldn't have come this far.
People feel they are ripped off. I don't understand this. Everybody knows that there is no copyright on a circuit as such, like there is no copyright on a cooking receipe. Unless you are granted a patent. You can hold a copyright on your hand or computer drawn schematic, texts, pictures, but not on the circuit itself. If you don't want people to design a PCB for your circuit and sell it, don't post your circuit. Or be the first to sell the kits. It's that simple.
Having done at least two or three group buys here on the forum, I know you cannot make money from selling kits, PCBs or parts. You can earn your next beer, if you're lucky, but most likely you will be losing some money.
I don't understand this attitude of some people who are jealously guarding their knowledge. Why did you come here in the first place?
In general, people seem to behave more childish than they used to when I left for a break... Why is this? Have I missed something?
One word of caution: Please don't tell me who the bad boys are. I'm not interested at all. All I want is the diyaudio I used to know.
People I once new as great personalities, generously sharing their knowledge, suddenly start attacking each other as if they were the leaders of opposing parties during an election campaign...
People who once helped others getting their projects right randomly hijack other's threads and start off-topic flame wars...
Things that formerly were widely accepted suddenly raise critic, even hate...
Diyaudio no longer is the cosy place it used to be. I'm getting tired of having to scroll past flame wars to the next on-topic post.
The purpose of this place is to share knowledge. It doesn't make sense to me at all when I read (even though not addressed to me) "Hey, I've gained this experience through many year's hard work, and now you expect me to tell you which transistor to select?" Well, yes, I do. At least a little hint. Learning from others is what this place is all about. If everybody had to start from scratch, we wouldn't have come this far.
People feel they are ripped off. I don't understand this. Everybody knows that there is no copyright on a circuit as such, like there is no copyright on a cooking receipe. Unless you are granted a patent. You can hold a copyright on your hand or computer drawn schematic, texts, pictures, but not on the circuit itself. If you don't want people to design a PCB for your circuit and sell it, don't post your circuit. Or be the first to sell the kits. It's that simple.
Having done at least two or three group buys here on the forum, I know you cannot make money from selling kits, PCBs or parts. You can earn your next beer, if you're lucky, but most likely you will be losing some money.
I don't understand this attitude of some people who are jealously guarding their knowledge. Why did you come here in the first place?
In general, people seem to behave more childish than they used to when I left for a break... Why is this? Have I missed something?
One word of caution: Please don't tell me who the bad boys are. I'm not interested at all. All I want is the diyaudio I used to know.
I will probably show my age by saying this. I've been on the internet since I started my day job in 1980. There was no www (at least not for the general public). However, there were technically oriented, DIY-audio focused bulletin boards and newsgroups. The same thing happened there. Some of these still exist but are NOTHING like what they used to be.
As Mr. Spock or Kosh might say (pick your favorite show 🙂 ), "Humans are involved; the behavior we see is to be expected, after a time"
It is quite interesting to search through the old netnews postings on google from years back. Some fantastic nuggets are out there. For example, some great stuff on bypassing from Pete Gedreau (spelling?). Fred knows who I'm talking about 🙂
mlloyd1
who is VERY glad there are really no Minbari 🙂 :
"The humans. Follow them to their homeworld. Kill them, Kill them all!"
As Mr. Spock or Kosh might say (pick your favorite show 🙂 ), "Humans are involved; the behavior we see is to be expected, after a time"
It is quite interesting to search through the old netnews postings on google from years back. Some fantastic nuggets are out there. For example, some great stuff on bypassing from Pete Gedreau (spelling?). Fred knows who I'm talking about 🙂
mlloyd1
who is VERY glad there are really no Minbari 🙂 :
"The humans. Follow them to their homeworld. Kill them, Kill them all!"
Konnichiwa,
Full Moon? Hot Part of the year? Excessive exposure to hypnotic radiation from US Satellites to whip up the proper "patriotic" frenzy among the North americans for the next crusade against WMD posessing, poor, near starving brownskinned "Enemies" that sit on millons of Barels of oil?
Who knows....
Amen.
Sounds like a plan, let's go for it. Hanging out here does at time make one feel it would be best to just get rid of the Homo Interludiens Mobiles (who inaccuratly calls himself Homo Sapiens Sapiens) and let nature take it's course. I start to like these Mimbari!
Sayonara
OliverD said:
Full Moon? Hot Part of the year? Excessive exposure to hypnotic radiation from US Satellites to whip up the proper "patriotic" frenzy among the North americans for the next crusade against WMD posessing, poor, near starving brownskinned "Enemies" that sit on millons of Barels of oil?
Who knows....
OliverD said:
Amen.
mlloyd1 said:
Sounds like a plan, let's go for it. Hanging out here does at time make one feel it would be best to just get rid of the Homo Interludiens Mobiles (who inaccuratly calls himself Homo Sapiens Sapiens) and let nature take it's course. I start to like these Mimbari!
Sayonara
I honestly believe that what runs off the big names is when this place doesn't seem like fun, not the IP issue.
When a forum looks like fun, and when people are respected, the big guns show up because they get recognition. They love to show their cleverness to an "adoring " public. In exchange they give useful info. Forget the big guys, how about the many knowlegable people that help out others out of a sense of community? When a place is full of acrimony, why would you want to come back? You HAVE to interact with A-holes during the day, why would you want to associate with them voluntarily in the evening?
When a forum looks like fun, and when people are respected, the big guns show up because they get recognition. They love to show their cleverness to an "adoring " public. In exchange they give useful info. Forget the big guys, how about the many knowlegable people that help out others out of a sense of community? When a place is full of acrimony, why would you want to come back? You HAVE to interact with A-holes during the day, why would you want to associate with them voluntarily in the evening?
after all, DIY stands for do it yourself...thats the point of this place, to give and get tips for doing it yourself...not to make it harder for others to do it themselves, nor to attract customers for your newest speakers
Strong personalities
I think right now there are a handful of strong personalities on the board who are posturing a bit. The most respected people I know let others be high and mighty and blow their own steam out and then when they realize they have gone overboard, welcome them back without bad feeling. I hope that happens here.
The Internet gives too many people the ability to act like blankidy blanks without recourse. If this were a community where everybody saw each other every day, there would be a totally different feeling. Maybe someday, on-line etiquette will be as good as interpersonal interaction.
Let the strong, moral and fun loving among us not contribute to the current issues, nor judge those involved. Simply welcome all of them back when they return to the forum the way they could be.
Sandy.
I think right now there are a handful of strong personalities on the board who are posturing a bit. The most respected people I know let others be high and mighty and blow their own steam out and then when they realize they have gone overboard, welcome them back without bad feeling. I hope that happens here.
The Internet gives too many people the ability to act like blankidy blanks without recourse. If this were a community where everybody saw each other every day, there would be a totally different feeling. Maybe someday, on-line etiquette will be as good as interpersonal interaction.
Let the strong, moral and fun loving among us not contribute to the current issues, nor judge those involved. Simply welcome all of them back when they return to the forum the way they could be.
Sandy.
It's not all bad news (you didn't make it out to be, I know!)
I'm relatively new here and have had good experiences only. I've read quite a few posts from other 'newbies' who've been received the same way.
I've also seen a few rather heated discussions/debates but these seem to be where titans clash. Two or more experienced people on opposite sides of the fence will often do that, though, and short of locking/deleting threads it's probably best to just let 'them' duke it out. One day hopefully at least one will remember how subjective sound is to an individual.
But then on the odd occasion you'll just get a pair of blockheads who'll never even agree to disagree. That's just overblown ego's, I think. The saddest part of these threads is people like myself just end up confused!
My 2.2c worth (inc. GST)
I'm relatively new here and have had good experiences only. I've read quite a few posts from other 'newbies' who've been received the same way.
I've also seen a few rather heated discussions/debates but these seem to be where titans clash. Two or more experienced people on opposite sides of the fence will often do that, though, and short of locking/deleting threads it's probably best to just let 'them' duke it out. One day hopefully at least one will remember how subjective sound is to an individual.
But then on the odd occasion you'll just get a pair of blockheads who'll never even agree to disagree. That's just overblown ego's, I think. The saddest part of these threads is people like myself just end up confused!
My 2.2c worth (inc. GST)
I don't think it matters. If the site gets any slower no one will be able to follow threads or post anyway.
OliverD said:
Like most good things, it is a victim of its own success. Lots of people heard it was great and lots of people joined up. Unfortunately, we are all only too human and conflict is the predictable by-product of over-crowding.
Do not despair, frustration will dwindle the numbers and soon there will be peaceful grazing again. In the end, those who stay really, truly, so very much want to be here.
🙂ensen.
Basically🙁
heh i took my server down i dont want anyone to find a problem
with what im posting on the webpage and ***** about it
there a lot of that....
heh i took my server down i dont want anyone to find a problem
with what im posting on the webpage and ***** about it
there a lot of that....
May be this is the time to start reading the old threads - for those projects that you have always wanted to build but don't know how or don't have the time at that time because we're too busy reading the forum and not building anything.
Now ... is there a way to save the old threads on my hard drive for future reference .... just in case .... ?
Now ... is there a way to save the old threads on my hard drive for future reference .... just in case .... ?
What happened....?
Well, a lot of it is because of what happens behind the scenes........in private e-mails and other communications that are not known to the members in general.
I know that a lot of you will find this hard to believe, but some of the "nice guys" here, are the biggest liars, cheats, thieves, and just all-around weasels that there.
Talk about jealousy??? If you guys knew what I did on how some of the "nice guys" go out of their way to wreck someone else's business, all because one guys sells more PCBs than the other one, then a lot of the hostility would make more sense.
For the record.......
No one has harmed my commerical endeavours. The same can not be said for some people that I have known for almost 20 years.
I tend to fight for my friends. Not that they need my help, I just can not abide crooked behaviour. And there is way too much going on for me to just sit by and watch it happen.
Who the "bad guys" are......where they are does not matter. I have no use for any of them. I am just as passionate about sticking up for what I see as right, as I am about building audio gear.
Jocko
Well, a lot of it is because of what happens behind the scenes........in private e-mails and other communications that are not known to the members in general.
I know that a lot of you will find this hard to believe, but some of the "nice guys" here, are the biggest liars, cheats, thieves, and just all-around weasels that there.
Talk about jealousy??? If you guys knew what I did on how some of the "nice guys" go out of their way to wreck someone else's business, all because one guys sells more PCBs than the other one, then a lot of the hostility would make more sense.
For the record.......
No one has harmed my commerical endeavours. The same can not be said for some people that I have known for almost 20 years.
I tend to fight for my friends. Not that they need my help, I just can not abide crooked behaviour. And there is way too much going on for me to just sit by and watch it happen.
Who the "bad guys" are......where they are does not matter. I have no use for any of them. I am just as passionate about sticking up for what I see as right, as I am about building audio gear.
Jocko
Well look at it from the point of view of those of us not privy to those private e-mails. All we hear is "You don't understand..."
BUT what are we to think when a self centered egotist in love with his "anarchist" role ( NOT JOcko) tells us that there are "secret e-mails" where people are complaining to him that they are leaving for this reason or that....
For all we know, this is a conspiracy by the little kit businessmen to try and stamp out the group buys that are cpompeting with what they think are their God given income..
Shpoop: Not that I wanna be paranoid or anything, but just in case you were mentioning the speakers referred to on my tagline-They are based on a $20 info pack I ordered, but I have very little connection to the guy selling it (Dick Olsher) Basically I'm just inordinately proud of the pair of speakers that I may finish someday sooon...... AND I have been very careful to not reveal enough crossover details to ruin Dicks business (which I suspect is only big enough to buy him a driver every month.....
BUT what are we to think when a self centered egotist in love with his "anarchist" role ( NOT JOcko) tells us that there are "secret e-mails" where people are complaining to him that they are leaving for this reason or that....
For all we know, this is a conspiracy by the little kit businessmen to try and stamp out the group buys that are cpompeting with what they think are their God given income..
Shpoop: Not that I wanna be paranoid or anything, but just in case you were mentioning the speakers referred to on my tagline-They are based on a $20 info pack I ordered, but I have very little connection to the guy selling it (Dick Olsher) Basically I'm just inordinately proud of the pair of speakers that I may finish someday sooon...... AND I have been very careful to not reveal enough crossover details to ruin Dicks business (which I suspect is only big enough to buy him a driver every month.....
I do understand...........
Yeah, I can imagine that those of you on the sidelines are really scratching your heads.
Conspiarcy theory???
Well, as living in "Grassy Knoll Country", I know all about conspiracy theories. Hell, we almost live for them down here.
(A buddy once drew a cartoon proclaiming that Dallas is the "place where we teach them to shoot at Presidents, and at people who shoot at Presidents!" The Secret Service showed up at his house one morning.............)
Seriously.......the guys that I know have no problem with group buys, or any other competitor, as long as they play by the same rules that are fair to all. Competition keeps us on our toes. Heck, if I made a kit, and a lot of other guys started making one, that would tell me it is time to get something new out to stay one step ahead of the crowd.
The problem arises when an "upstart" wants a "jumpstart" by stealing another guys stuff.
If Signoro Variac was fixin' to show all of us his latest......(what is it..Basszilla......?)........and right about that time I posted detailed diagrams of all the cabinet parts........complete crossover schematics.........etc.......about one week after one of my buddies spent the entire afternoon at his shop, getting the "grand tour"......all with "Patented by Jerko Crooko" printed on all of it.......
How would he react?
That is analogous to what bugs us.
Jocko
Yeah, I can imagine that those of you on the sidelines are really scratching your heads.
Conspiarcy theory???
Well, as living in "Grassy Knoll Country", I know all about conspiracy theories. Hell, we almost live for them down here.
(A buddy once drew a cartoon proclaiming that Dallas is the "place where we teach them to shoot at Presidents, and at people who shoot at Presidents!" The Secret Service showed up at his house one morning.............)
Seriously.......the guys that I know have no problem with group buys, or any other competitor, as long as they play by the same rules that are fair to all. Competition keeps us on our toes. Heck, if I made a kit, and a lot of other guys started making one, that would tell me it is time to get something new out to stay one step ahead of the crowd.
The problem arises when an "upstart" wants a "jumpstart" by stealing another guys stuff.
If Signoro Variac was fixin' to show all of us his latest......(what is it..Basszilla......?)........and right about that time I posted detailed diagrams of all the cabinet parts........complete crossover schematics.........etc.......about one week after one of my buddies spent the entire afternoon at his shop, getting the "grand tour"......all with "Patented by Jerko Crooko" printed on all of it.......
How would he react?
That is analogous to what bugs us.
Jocko
Konnichiwa,
Hmmm. Maybe it's better that you do not know what you need not know?
One of the more common ad hominem "behind the scenes" attacks seems to sign up peoples e-mail adresses to "porn e-mail". I had it happen to me twice so far, each time in the temporal context of a certain on-line spat. It's a shame that in either case our IT department failed to pursue the matter past convincing themselves that it was not me who had signed up. I can see someone getting into real trouble at work about this kind of thing.
Anyway I do keep the related info on file, "in case", together with other fun facts about people, you'd be amazed what a nice background search can turn up about most people (including me).
Now what would you think (about both people involved) if you where told publically who was the most likely culprit of such porn attacks and moreover, can you imagine the errupting spat (regardless of the veracity of posted data) when the accused will of course deny the accusation and claim he is being smeared and so on.... ?
I think in some ways it is better that some of the "behind the scenes" stuff remains exactly that. I for one am thoroughly disgusted at what length some poeple go through, simply about disagreeing opinion (unless of course the real reason would happen to be commercial interrest).
Sayonara
Variac said:
Hmmm. Maybe it's better that you do not know what you need not know?
One of the more common ad hominem "behind the scenes" attacks seems to sign up peoples e-mail adresses to "porn e-mail". I had it happen to me twice so far, each time in the temporal context of a certain on-line spat. It's a shame that in either case our IT department failed to pursue the matter past convincing themselves that it was not me who had signed up. I can see someone getting into real trouble at work about this kind of thing.
Anyway I do keep the related info on file, "in case", together with other fun facts about people, you'd be amazed what a nice background search can turn up about most people (including me).
Now what would you think (about both people involved) if you where told publically who was the most likely culprit of such porn attacks and moreover, can you imagine the errupting spat (regardless of the veracity of posted data) when the accused will of course deny the accusation and claim he is being smeared and so on.... ?
I think in some ways it is better that some of the "behind the scenes" stuff remains exactly that. I for one am thoroughly disgusted at what length some poeple go through, simply about disagreeing opinion (unless of course the real reason would happen to be commercial interrest).
Sayonara
A newbie's view
I joined the forum a few months ago when I started building a Leach amp. I was at my wit's end trying to etch my own boards and after four less-than-acceptable attempts I decided to buy the boards.
After a quick posting asking for help I found a guy that was willing to sell me a pair of boards for a great price. He threw in a GC kit gratis and refused to accept my offer to pay for it. He just wanted me to try the GC concept for myself.
I've observed two basic behaviors here: 1) guys like the above that are helpful and interested in seeing others succeed and 2) guys that have some axe to grind or perhaps just like stirring others up.
I've only posted a few times and some of my questions were indeed naive. The people that have responded have been helpful while also gently chiding me for not being ambitious enough to sort some elementary problems out for myself.
I guess that what I'm trying to say is that I find diyaudio a great place to be involved so long as I ignore the personal fights.
Mike
I joined the forum a few months ago when I started building a Leach amp. I was at my wit's end trying to etch my own boards and after four less-than-acceptable attempts I decided to buy the boards.
After a quick posting asking for help I found a guy that was willing to sell me a pair of boards for a great price. He threw in a GC kit gratis and refused to accept my offer to pay for it. He just wanted me to try the GC concept for myself.
I've observed two basic behaviors here: 1) guys like the above that are helpful and interested in seeing others succeed and 2) guys that have some axe to grind or perhaps just like stirring others up.
I've only posted a few times and some of my questions were indeed naive. The people that have responded have been helpful while also gently chiding me for not being ambitious enough to sort some elementary problems out for myself.
I guess that what I'm trying to say is that I find diyaudio a great place to be involved so long as I ignore the personal fights.
Mike
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