😀 thanks...., but I don't think so.
On those pictures the BLH loudspeakers are
- with cone reflector is an Impulse H6 reinkarnation, (short horn, kind of down fiering big vent reflex) sounds fantastic. Own 6.5" midbass driver (as good as a Vifa c17) and Vifa tweeter, 6dB crossover
- with sphere reflector: is a real BLH. Need some air pressure to begin to sound good. Own 6.5" fullrange driver (as good as a Vifa c17) and Cabasse tweeter, 6dB crossover.
- The brown, up fireing without reflecor big blh is with the Tannoy DC and it is similar to the famous german Replikon. Sounds mighty.....
BTW, I kike to use upfireing drivers, because they are reducing in natural way the midbass and tweeter sound increases. The xo could be very simple.
Greets:
Tyimo
Hi,
I'm thinking of these.
Rear-firing setup, with the ports facing the 'normal' directions. The port can be those of MLTL or BLH etc.
So, the direct sound is the bass (1), maybe under 100-some Hz, should be good for punch. And it'd be a compensation for the group delay of the LF tuning by arriving sooner than mid-high frequencies.
Above the LF, sounds are reflected from the wall (2) & (3).
The stronger reflections (2) appear at some narrower angle, which might be a good thing considering HRTF. Weaker reflections (3) appear at very wide angle, which might be good for a spacious ambiance.
Did I re-invent the wheel ? I mean Bose 901 😛 Very likely, just a simpler one.
One step further:
Now the wider reflections (3) come from another pair of sources. These can be derived from differential connection (Hafler stereo), so the system can remain simple, still a stereo amp.
A very good feature I'm expecting from such setup is off-center listening. When the listener is at the far left, he/she would hear much more sound coming from the right, which can avoid the images being pulled to the left.
And, blended with up-firing, I guess there'd be a lot of fun from these concepts.
Yeah, I know, besides fun, there'll be a whole lot of problems in all those multiple paths and room acoustics.
Any interest? 🙂
I'm thinking of these.
Rear-firing setup, with the ports facing the 'normal' directions. The port can be those of MLTL or BLH etc.
So, the direct sound is the bass (1), maybe under 100-some Hz, should be good for punch. And it'd be a compensation for the group delay of the LF tuning by arriving sooner than mid-high frequencies.
Above the LF, sounds are reflected from the wall (2) & (3).
The stronger reflections (2) appear at some narrower angle, which might be a good thing considering HRTF. Weaker reflections (3) appear at very wide angle, which might be good for a spacious ambiance.
Did I re-invent the wheel ? I mean Bose 901 😛 Very likely, just a simpler one.
One step further:
Now the wider reflections (3) come from another pair of sources. These can be derived from differential connection (Hafler stereo), so the system can remain simple, still a stereo amp.
A very good feature I'm expecting from such setup is off-center listening. When the listener is at the far left, he/she would hear much more sound coming from the right, which can avoid the images being pulled to the left.
And, blended with up-firing, I guess there'd be a lot of fun from these concepts.
Yeah, I know, besides fun, there'll be a whole lot of problems in all those multiple paths and room acoustics.
Any interest? 🙂
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Hi, I'm thinking of these...
One step further:
...
Yeah, I know, besides fun, there'll be a whole lot of problems in all those multiple paths and room acoustics.
Any interest? 🙂
Hi what about delays between signals reflected by different walls and arriving at the listening spot at different times ?
I have to say that i do not like the Bose approach at all.
The best listening rooms i have been to had all reflections absorbers on the walls.
To an extreme think to a reverberant room ... listening in it would be a brain destroying experience with sounds coming from all around ... crazy.
Regards, gino
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Delay can be dealt with dsp 3-4ms I guess. For this kind of setup, xo should be max say 200Hz optimally around 50Hz. I have downfire (sub)woofers in 4-ways and when placed near the wall, reinforced/reflected signal must be corrected 1ms-2ms. The bass gets a kick and it takes some time you know!
I think that this reflection-delay is a major issue with normal passive speakers that go really low. In anechoid chamber this reflection does not happen and it's effect is underrated. Delay makes GD enormous and bass gets sloppy and lagging. Also seen very clearly in step response. Also interferences appear at strange frequencies.
The trick and problem is that main speakers need dsp-delay, not subs/woofers! Most AV preamplifiers have delay/distance setting for mains to play with!
I can't see this issue discussed a lot in the net. Pro audio guys know it better.
I think that this reflection-delay is a major issue with normal passive speakers that go really low. In anechoid chamber this reflection does not happen and it's effect is underrated. Delay makes GD enormous and bass gets sloppy and lagging. Also seen very clearly in step response. Also interferences appear at strange frequencies.
The trick and problem is that main speakers need dsp-delay, not subs/woofers! Most AV preamplifiers have delay/distance setting for mains to play with!
I can't see this issue discussed a lot in the net. Pro audio guys know it better.
Nothing special. Radiating in four directions. I think a normal bipolar speaker with front and rear fireing would be almost the same.
I think the problem is the far wall reflection. I mean the left channel's sound from the right wall.
What I tried (driver looked toward to the corner) is better in this way. The downside is loss of sensitivity.
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In a normal living space, it'd not be totally dead or live acoustically. For casual listening --most of the time, that is-- I feel it's pleasing in slightly more reverberation. It tends to be richer and more forgiving to those inferior recordings. Of course this can be overdone and the sound would become messy.
In my previous proposal, I guess the major problem would be the 'xover' between bass (from ports) and mid-treble (from wall reflection). Under a point, bass is actually omni (unless we get it from very large horn), so it also join the wall reflections of mid-treble. Could be a real mess. Or the distance (reflection delay) would be critical.
Probably it's the reason it can't be done by a simple speaker, thus the multiple-driver Bose and IMP.
In my previous proposal, I guess the major problem would be the 'xover' between bass (from ports) and mid-treble (from wall reflection). Under a point, bass is actually omni (unless we get it from very large horn), so it also join the wall reflections of mid-treble. Could be a real mess. Or the distance (reflection delay) would be critical.
Probably it's the reason it can't be done by a simple speaker, thus the multiple-driver Bose and IMP.
Hi and thanks a lot for the very helpful advice
I still think that the point source principle is interesting even if not so easy to get.
But i am not sure because for instance in room acoustic treatments i see both adsorbers and diffusers ... it seems to me very tricky to get the best compromise ... very difficult.
Thanks again, gino
Hi only to add an interesting review of an old but very spatial sounding classic loudspeaker, the Celestion SL600
The Celestion SL-600, first of the luxury compact monitors | The Audiolog
there are some very interesting comments like
i can only imagine what that cabinets would sound with a couple of good Scanspeak drivers 😱
Because i have read that the original drivers were indeed their Achille's heel ... good but not at the exceptional level of the cabinets (a masterpiece from what i understand)
Sound completely detached from them.
Regards, gino
The Celestion SL-600, first of the luxury compact monitors | The Audiolog
there are some very interesting comments like
i can only imagine what that cabinets would sound with a couple of good Scanspeak drivers 😱
Because i have read that the original drivers were indeed their Achille's heel ... good but not at the exceptional level of the cabinets (a masterpiece from what i understand)
Sound completely detached from them.
Regards, gino
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