While room placement and such do have a lot to do with the soundstage, I do think the speaker design has the larger role and it not need be from multiple driver locations ie rear firing, multi angle, etc. I have heard Wolf's Nephila twice now in 2 very different rooms. From first appearance, they seem as a fairly conventional 2 way and nothing particularly out of the ordinary as far as driver placement. The first room was a finished basement carpeted, walled, and drop ceiling tiles. The second was a much larger space with hard floors multiple openings (halls, etc ) and not what most would consider an "ideal" environment.
In both rooms, the flip of the switch between the the caps resulted in a spaciousness that was incredibly different. Both settings had great imaging, clarity, and focus. One was not necessarily better than the other, but it was decidedly different. I preferred the wider of the 2 and that is simply a personal choice.
In both rooms, the flip of the switch between the the caps resulted in a spaciousness that was incredibly different. Both settings had great imaging, clarity, and focus. One was not necessarily better than the other, but it was decidedly different. I preferred the wider of the 2 and that is simply a personal choice.
Good choice. I also like coaxials.
It should be better with a one-way full range or a coaxial. Have You tried a coaxial speaker in a Shahinian-like enclosure?
Is the small TB loudspeaker significantly better in that regard than Your Tannoy?
well, as the caps "were within 0.1uF of each other" it sounds more like "choice of parts" than "speaker design"
Siegfried Linkwitz had some interesting writings on this. He says there are 2 ways to go about creating a soundstage.
The first way is to use speakers with narrow and controlled directivity to beam direct sound to the listener's ears and reduce the effect of the listening room reflections. It is basically trying to suppress the listening room and transport the listener into the acoustic of the recording. This can give very impressive imaging, but on the other hand the sweet spot may be only big enough for one person, and it can be almost like wearing headphones.
The second way is to create the illusion that the musicians are in your listening room. This is done by using speakers with wide directivity at all frequencies, to excite the listening room acoustics in a similar way to the original performance. According to Linkwitz, the omni and dipole speakers excel at this.
Which of these ways gives the most enjoyable presentation will depend on a whole bunch of factors, including the style of music, the techniques used to record and mix it, and your room acoustics. I forget who said this, but stereo is not a reproduction system, it is a basis for personal experimentation.
Even if we were following the first way, we would still like the speakers to have a fairly even frequency response off-axis, so the room reflections aren't too strongly coloured.
The first way is to use speakers with narrow and controlled directivity to beam direct sound to the listener's ears and reduce the effect of the listening room reflections. It is basically trying to suppress the listening room and transport the listener into the acoustic of the recording. This can give very impressive imaging, but on the other hand the sweet spot may be only big enough for one person, and it can be almost like wearing headphones.
The second way is to create the illusion that the musicians are in your listening room. This is done by using speakers with wide directivity at all frequencies, to excite the listening room acoustics in a similar way to the original performance. According to Linkwitz, the omni and dipole speakers excel at this.
Which of these ways gives the most enjoyable presentation will depend on a whole bunch of factors, including the style of music, the techniques used to record and mix it, and your room acoustics. I forget who said this, but stereo is not a reproduction system, it is a basis for personal experimentation.
Even if we were following the first way, we would still like the speakers to have a fairly even frequency response off-axis, so the room reflections aren't too strongly coloured.
Semantics. What I was referring to was room vs design. And even in that, Wolf's design further convinced me that multi driver/locations are not absolutely needed for an expansive yet detailed soundstage.
The 2 caps are of the same stated value but made a huge audible difference in presentation. One had a larger sounstage the other a bit better imaging and instrument placement. Almost DSP in effect but more natural.Honestly if I had not had a good amount of time with these on 2 separate occasions and in 2 very different rooms with very different gear I would have a hard time believing it too. But I did and I do.
I have tried for years to make spatius sounding diy speaker and it is extreamly difficult. I have an old Chartwell speaker which sound very spatius and full sounding. I have been trying to copy this for years with some sucsess by using the measurements from the Chartwell speaker. What I find important in making such a speaker is not having a flat frequens curve. The Chartwell has a 4-5 db lift in the 100-250 Hz range(nearfeld measurement) and a 3-4 db lift from 4 to 7 Khz and then linar from there. This makes the speaker sound spatius, but it is extremely difficult to lift the lower frequence. To my experience you need a high Q driver with high Qms. The problem with this frequence is that we in normal rooms have a dip in frequence there and i belive by lifting this frequence the speaker get a more lineare in room measurement. (sorry for my bad inglish, its not my first language)
Not yet.
I don't know, or very different. I think that the size of the room determines the sound and the sound stage creating. I mean the big Tannoys has very big sound, maybe too big for this sized room. The whole room is full of sound and energized, but with the small speaker the sound or the musicians sitting in the right place, nice separated.
I Very much agree with this. I have similar experiences. I once heard a very fantastic spatial monitor speaker with very deep sound stage, but the sweet spot was for only one head!!! A few centimeter away everything collapsed!
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Yes, but in my experiences the musicians location not so perfect than the first version.
Yes, it is very true. I think one of the most important thing is the techniques used to record and mix it.
Try it if You can. It will make the reflected sound more like a copy of the direct sound - in time domain (wavefront shapes). Science of hearing suggest that this can make a difference in the clarity and focus of the image. This is also my experience.
Yes, it looks like that the virtual sound sources are bloated because the room boundaries (walls) are to close to the speakers in a small room and thus overly excited. Because of this separation of the sources is impaired.
Perhaps You can try some acoustic screens acting as deflectors to redirect the energy of the first lateral reflections away from the listening position.
I use foldable bamboo room dividers for both redirecting and sound-absorption, some diffusion too (due to the wavy shape of the divider) to achieve almost studio-like level of the room sound. With too much of them the room can almost sound to dead for my taste. Completely headphone-like experience.
This is an excellent idea. My living room is very "live" and one of these might just make the difference.
they are cheap and very handy - light, easy to move around and form a desired shape, and when folded they take very little storage space so one can unroll them and put practically anywhere they're needed, just for listening and then remove, fold and hide in the storage after listening
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those are just high frequency reflectors, you need depth, porosity to have substantial absorption
to be effective adsorption needs to be on the order of the sound wavelength at the frequencies you want to knock down
http://ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html
to be effective adsorption needs to be on the order of the sound wavelength at the frequencies you want to knock down
http://ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html
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there are engineering principles involved - lots of sound treatment info on the web, some of it is even technically correct
claims of substantial sound absorption, room damping from those panels is implausible - could mislead the many with little on or no knowledge in this area
claims of substantial sound absorption, room damping from those panels is implausible - could mislead the many with little on or no knowledge in this area
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I think these bamboo panels will act as diffusers, not absorbers. If arranged in a wavy shape they will disperse sound waves in multiple directions and break up the flutter echo you get from bare parallel walls.
I side with Linkwitz, I think deadening the listening room like a recording studio is excessive. I think diffusion of the early reflections is worthwhile though.
I side with Linkwitz, I think deadening the listening room like a recording studio is excessive. I think diffusion of the early reflections is worthwhile though.
It's a way of thinking that is trapped in oversimplifications whereas real-life absorption is a complicated issue that is frequency-dependent, just as imaging-soundstaging problems are frequency-dependent dependent as well.
In those panels the bamboo strips are glued to felt. Bamboo is in front and felt at the back.
Think of it.
Sound Absorption Coefficients
Coefficient Chart
There is partly absorption, partly diffusion and partly redirection of the first reflections away from the listener.
Such things as basically no-name. I bought four such dividers at one of the Polish online auction services for around 50 Euro per piece.
Just google for "bamboo flexible room divider" or "bamboo flexible room divider".
When one considers how they are constructed and then takes a look at the charts (like for example at those that I linked to: Coefficient Chart,
Sound Absorption Coefficients), then it becomes clear that apart from diffusion and reflection there will be significant absorption at frequencies from around 500 Hz and up - these are exactly the frequencies critical for spatial hearing.
Having both bamboo strips and felt it's like a combination of an acoustic screen and a velour curtain. That's why it works. It is as simple as that.
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