Play, yes. Reproduce everything properly, not necessarily. The model is a bit sparse. For one thing humans are sensitive to phase at lower frequencies. Unwanted phase shift is considered a type of linear distortion (i.e. change in waveshape as viewed in the time domain). There are also crosstalk, other factors which can affect stereo imaging, etc.
If a system is able to reproduce everything as properly as possible, then what difference would the genre of music make? And why is it necessary to list phase shifts seperatly when you said yourself that they are a type of linear distortion? Is that not included in "little enough distortion"?
Agree on genre. Shouldn't matter.
Regarding little enough distortion, pretty much everything could come under that including FR, which would be another type of linear distortion. Slew limiting would be a nonlinear distortion, etc.
Anyway, most people around here seem to understand 'distortion' to mean HD/THD as measured by something like an AP or a sound card. That's the main reason I try to make the distinction between linear and nonlinear types. Then other stuff, such as signal-correlated noise, may have a ways to go before being generally accepted as something else to be concerned with.
Regarding little enough distortion, pretty much everything could come under that including FR, which would be another type of linear distortion. Slew limiting would be a nonlinear distortion, etc.
Anyway, most people around here seem to understand 'distortion' to mean HD/THD as measured by something like an AP or a sound card. That's the main reason I try to make the distinction between linear and nonlinear types. Then other stuff, such as signal-correlated noise, may have a ways to go before being generally accepted as something else to be concerned with.
This webpage is useful for selecting albums that haven't had the life squeezed out of them in the loudness war
https://dr.loudness-war.info/album/list
https://dr.loudness-war.info/album/list
Bachman Turner Overdrive - Not Fragile
with a lot of good Bass
For Bass testing also lots of Organ music recordings
with a lot of good Bass
For Bass testing also lots of Organ music recordings
Agree, and it bears repeating, I would say good recordings / mixes are a bad tool to evaluate speakers. Songs that stress speakers are better for obvious reasons, and those tend to be 'bad' in some way.
To put it another way, you can't find the limits of a system if you don't push them. I am not sure anything on Aja or Brothers in Arms pushes the limits of anything. On the other side of things, I have a test track on my "test" playlist that starts out with a swept tone from about 600hz down to 16. Why? Dunno, but it's convenient for testing bass performance.
Sure - Brothers in Arms doesn’t push any limits, but Money For Nothing is my go to test track for testing out bass alignment when setting up a PA rig. When the sub/top are aligned correctly it just clicks.
To test the limits, you need Metallica. “And nothing else matters….”
To test the limits, you need Metallica. “And nothing else matters….”
Referring to the limits, we usually talk about upper limits: volume and frequency extremes. We should consider the lower limits too, I mean micro details, separation of low volume information in presence of high volume musical content. Capturing room echo also belongs to this. My preferred reference is an acoustic orchestra recorded on a stage. Like this:
Pink Floyd and Dire Straights both have huge and lovely expansive dynamic range I just love it. And the PF The Wall has some of the very nicest kick drum I have ever heard on a recording. It comes through with excellent punch clarity and realism. The Wall may be my favorite of all time recordings.
I got my copies of Best Of Black Sabbath. Glad I pressed go on that one. If you play that style of music often check that one out at some point.
I got my copies of Best Of Black Sabbath. Glad I pressed go on that one. If you play that style of music often check that one out at some point.
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This particular yt video has very very low audio quality, full of artefacts due to lossy compression, very easy to hear.
This is better
Also spotify has it better
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Well... a single cello...
Better throw some Mahler or Stravinsky at your speakers. That's a whole lot more revealing I think.
Wondering if some people are using 'reference' music only for speakers and rooms? If so, that leaves the rest of the system without reference recordings for it. OTOH, if reference recordings are being used to test the whole system, including any source device such as dac and or vinyl, the why isn't anyone specifying source media formats for evaluating the system starting from the source device.
Why not not use CD, SACD, hi-res PCM, DSD256, and or 45 RPM, 180gm vinyl all of the same very few select songs you know every little bit of from memory? Otherwise there is no way to know every little detail in 100 different recordings people suggest to use for a reference. There is also no way to compare relative source device performance if the only source media is CD.
Why not not use CD, SACD, hi-res PCM, DSD256, and or 45 RPM, 180gm vinyl all of the same very few select songs you know every little bit of from memory? Otherwise there is no way to know every little detail in 100 different recordings people suggest to use for a reference. There is also no way to compare relative source device performance if the only source media is CD.
I have ten different (stereo) tracks I use for evaluation, all originally from CD. I've used these for many years, and know them quite well. None of them are "audiophile" type of recordings.
And then I have about the same amount of tracks for multichannel.
And then I have about the same amount of tracks for multichannel.
Here's a very nice recording by 2L, my excellent, local record company.
Jan Gunnar Hoff -"Living" Steinway in Sofienberg Church, Oslo, Norway.
you can get SACD, PABlu-Ray, MQA, DXD, 180g vinyl...
https://shop.2l.no/collections/frontpage/products/living-jan-gunnar-hoff
Jan Gunnar Hoff -"Living" Steinway in Sofienberg Church, Oslo, Norway.
you can get SACD, PABlu-Ray, MQA, DXD, 180g vinyl...
https://shop.2l.no/collections/frontpage/products/living-jan-gunnar-hoff
Here's my list of stereo test-tracks
1. Donald Fagen / The Nightfly : New Frontier (track 5)
2. Eva Cassidy / Songbird : Wayfaring Stranger (track 4)
3. Sting / The Soul Cages : Island Of Souls (track 1)
4. Yellowjackets / Blue Hats : Cape Town (track 1)
5. J.S Bach / Oster-Oratorium BWV 249 / Herreweghe, Collegium Vocale : Chorus, Kommt, eilet und laufet (track 3)
6. J.S Bach / Magnificat BWV 243 / Gardiner, Monteverdi Choir : Coro - Magnificat (track 1)
7. Brahms / Liebeslieder-Walzer op. 52 / Gardiner, Monteverdi Choir : Rede, Mädchen, allzu liebes (track 1)
8. Handel / Messiah / Gardiner, English Baroque Soloists : Comfort ye, my people (track 2)
9. Handel / Messiah / Gardiner, English Baroque Soloists : And the glory of the Lord (track 4)
10. Handel / Messiah / Gardiner, English Baroque Soloists : Thus saith the Lord (track 5)
1. Donald Fagen / The Nightfly : New Frontier (track 5)
2. Eva Cassidy / Songbird : Wayfaring Stranger (track 4)
3. Sting / The Soul Cages : Island Of Souls (track 1)
4. Yellowjackets / Blue Hats : Cape Town (track 1)
5. J.S Bach / Oster-Oratorium BWV 249 / Herreweghe, Collegium Vocale : Chorus, Kommt, eilet und laufet (track 3)
6. J.S Bach / Magnificat BWV 243 / Gardiner, Monteverdi Choir : Coro - Magnificat (track 1)
7. Brahms / Liebeslieder-Walzer op. 52 / Gardiner, Monteverdi Choir : Rede, Mädchen, allzu liebes (track 1)
8. Handel / Messiah / Gardiner, English Baroque Soloists : Comfort ye, my people (track 2)
9. Handel / Messiah / Gardiner, English Baroque Soloists : And the glory of the Lord (track 4)
10. Handel / Messiah / Gardiner, English Baroque Soloists : Thus saith the Lord (track 5)
Markw4, yeah this is common problem in all audio. I think one should use some particular format and gear, in order to reduce variables. For example someone promotes on the forum that certain driver being better than another, but better in which context? Did one level match them for instance? Did one listen them in the same full range speaker context system adjusted and EQ:d the same or naked without any context? How quick a switch between? what about position being different? Whats the environment, the source, test method and so on. Basically there is so many unknowns and variables the change in perceived "sound quality" is impossible to pinpoint to a particular feature with high confidence. Most likely, the difference was due to multiple things and not just one. What is good "sound quality", what are you listening to? All these are missing from most forum posts for example.
The value is only what you hear and to properly isolate variables to be able to judge what actually is different between two systems one really has to be quite pedantic on the tests so it makes sense to "standardize2 your source tracks as well. For example, even if you use same physical recording to compare two systems loudspeaker systems you still need to make sure rest of the system, including your hearing, stays as static as possible between the comparisons. What if you compare needless for your turntable, but your speakers are positioned so you really can't hear the difference because treble is a mess. You'd probably get to very different conclusion than some other who has peaky treble and was listening on-axis.
That said, I don't have any particular tracks that sticks long, they would change every now and then what ever feels like I want to listen to. Basically, I'm listening for problems, thats all. Best sound is when there is emotional impact from the sound and music, which is available in tracks that you've recently had it, and problems in the setup could prevent this from happening. Problems might be in the system, or in the environment, or with the listener so be thoughtful about it. Basically, if the emotional impact is missing its time to think why, is it the music is bad, or the sound is bad, or just don't feel like listening to music at the moment? If music is chosen by you, and moment is chosen by you, then there is a chance you are listening to problems of the playback system. Do you know the playback system? If you are at home its likely you do.
I'm not sure if systems can be compared elsewhere than in your own listening room with your own terms so that most of the variables are relatively similar, including your state of mind, and familiar environment, and main thing that changes is the DUT. Perhaps when differences are obvious, like with very small and very big speaker, or between broken and functioning one, then it would be possible to say something is better than something else with high enough confidence. Or, if you had emotional impact somewhere that you don't get at home, try to figure out what was it? Was it just the social context, or truly a property of the system, or the room, or something else?
Alright, too much text already 😀 I use tracks that I feel emotional connection to, and it changes every now and then. No Nils Lofgren for me thanks 🙂
The value is only what you hear and to properly isolate variables to be able to judge what actually is different between two systems one really has to be quite pedantic on the tests so it makes sense to "standardize2 your source tracks as well. For example, even if you use same physical recording to compare two systems loudspeaker systems you still need to make sure rest of the system, including your hearing, stays as static as possible between the comparisons. What if you compare needless for your turntable, but your speakers are positioned so you really can't hear the difference because treble is a mess. You'd probably get to very different conclusion than some other who has peaky treble and was listening on-axis.
That said, I don't have any particular tracks that sticks long, they would change every now and then what ever feels like I want to listen to. Basically, I'm listening for problems, thats all. Best sound is when there is emotional impact from the sound and music, which is available in tracks that you've recently had it, and problems in the setup could prevent this from happening. Problems might be in the system, or in the environment, or with the listener so be thoughtful about it. Basically, if the emotional impact is missing its time to think why, is it the music is bad, or the sound is bad, or just don't feel like listening to music at the moment? If music is chosen by you, and moment is chosen by you, then there is a chance you are listening to problems of the playback system. Do you know the playback system? If you are at home its likely you do.
I'm not sure if systems can be compared elsewhere than in your own listening room with your own terms so that most of the variables are relatively similar, including your state of mind, and familiar environment, and main thing that changes is the DUT. Perhaps when differences are obvious, like with very small and very big speaker, or between broken and functioning one, then it would be possible to say something is better than something else with high enough confidence. Or, if you had emotional impact somewhere that you don't get at home, try to figure out what was it? Was it just the social context, or truly a property of the system, or the room, or something else?
Alright, too much text already 😀 I use tracks that I feel emotional connection to, and it changes every now and then. No Nils Lofgren for me thanks 🙂
Everyone, try this: to hear "nature of sound" of the playback system try swapping tracks really quick. For example, popup your playlist in your favorite streaming service, listen for couple of seconds per song and jump to the next one. If all the tracks sound kinda the same, you are either listening the top100 list, or your system has a particular sound that colors it 😉 Now concentrate what the sound is and how to deal with it if its something that needs dealing with. Its very likely what your are listening to is some resonances, like effect of the room modes or cone breakup, or too reverberation of the listening room and so on. If you listen song at the time, or just single loudspeaker system every day full day the brain adjusts and masks issues.