I posted an audio related thread in "Everything Else", it was moved to "The Lounge" when I politely asked why the answer I got was a sanction
I think I've at least skimmed every post and I have to say it's hard to remember who argued what and when.
So this was meant to be a serious question? From what angle? As in asking how many properly executed scientific studies would change peoples' mind, sort of like how public health regulators will change regulations if multiple studies verify an effect?
Unfortunately the original question though well meant is unanswerable. It would depend on the exact circumstances - the evidence needed for Peter Best's Quantum clip is different for that which is needed for, say hearing low distortion products in a DAC.
As you commented earlier, science often produces models that are outstandingly effective within their intended scope - Quantum Mechanics for instance - yet are recognised as being only a part of any total answer.
... it has been an entertaining thread though! 🙂
As you commented earlier, science often produces models that are outstandingly effective within their intended scope - Quantum Mechanics for instance - yet are recognised as being only a part of any total answer.
... it has been an entertaining thread though! 🙂
I do not consider it correct to call the question unanswerable.
As has been pointed out, the experimental design would fall out from what hypothesis was under test.
There is a serious question as to how much scientific evidence, i.e. multiple experiments and studies before it becomes accepted.
In any case I do not think a serious thread on these topics would succeed.
As has been pointed out, the experimental design would fall out from what hypothesis was under test.
There is a serious question as to how much scientific evidence, i.e. multiple experiments and studies before it becomes accepted.
In any case I do not think a serious thread on these topics would succeed.
It's unanswerable from my perspective as there is no one answer - as you have also said.
The question seemed to be hoping there was a generalised solution, whereas as far as I'm concerned, there is not.
The question seemed to be hoping there was a generalised solution, whereas as far as I'm concerned, there is not.
Reliability of emotional response? Hard to say in quantitave terms, but was that really your point when you posted to Max Headroom?
My response was triggered because you talked about "vibe and groove" as meaningless terms which they obviously aren´t.
We have in the past discussed the evoluation in medicine where more and more people seem to acknowledge that, although still considered as gold standard, the RCT doesn´t tell the whole story and therefore people are trying to combine the quantitive research with qualitative elements like observational studies.
I think something similar helps in perceptual audio evaluation questions about he "feeling" (i.e. the emotional response) might be able to deliver more insight. Usually people are often listening to music for the excitation of emotional response, as music seems to have a more direct path to our "brain".
Of course, reliability is a factor, but it is within controlled experiments as well; temporal averaging over a longer time span could help to get even more reliable results.
It´s a valid demand and will imo help (if affordable) to get better research.
But that seems to be more a general comment, the funny part is that although there is rarely something available that meets the high standards the audio field nevertheless did evolve to our todays state.
In a more narrow sense it was my intention (i think i´ve written something equivalent in the beginning of this thread) to get some informations about evidence considered as sufficient if one initially thought that a difference can´t be detected.
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My intention was to get some individualized informations about the topic.
That there most likely doesn´t exist a universal solution should we accept as an unfortunate fact, but thinking about the sufficiency question might nevertheless be fruitful.
There is no restriction set; if one thinks that he has different criteria depending on certain variables then it will be interesting to know about it.
What is being used in auditory research is Overall Listening Experience (OLE) as a measure which includes the audio quality as well as all other factors involved in the listening experience
I suggest you go through the actual audio DBT. Then your questions and doubts will be cleared.
That's what the pregame listening is. Let the audio DBT participants evaluate per their satisfaction in subjective comparison. If they notice the difference, then move on to the next phase of level matched DBT.
This has what to do with audio DBT? Oh, that's right, you are not talking about audio DBT.
It's ironic how those who shout the loudest, know the least.
Most scientific experiments require some form of calibration to ensure the test equipment & procedure is adequate for the task, otherwise you're just swinging in the wind.
Controls within blind tests are simply that - a calibration of the test itself (which includes the participants) as being adequate for the task at hand.
If this isn't understood, you're just swinging in the wind.
Most scientific experiments require some form of calibration to ensure the test equipment & procedure is adequate for the task, otherwise you're just swinging in the wind.
Controls within blind tests are simply that - a calibration of the test itself (which includes the participants) as being adequate for the task at hand.
If this isn't understood, you're just swinging in the wind.
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Sellers / shills will not publicly acknowledged scientific studies contradicting their narrative born out of business interest. Acknowledging it will be a suicide to sales potential. Not only that, they actively try to sway the minds of consumers. Again, this is for their sales potential, AKA advertisement.
I thought the discussion is centered around electronic audio replaying system. After all, this is DIY Audio forum where it is about DIY-ing of electronic audio replaying system.
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Most likely doesn't? Looks to me that's what you prefer, so that other "possibilities" can be pushed in the minds of consumers.
Our hearing is universal. Most likely the electronic sound replay system designed around that parameters would work universally for us.
I have a number of people with whom I have spent numerous of hours listening to music via loudspeakers and also visited live events with - from some of these, and now it only remains 2 or 3 persons - I would trust a statement as evidence of good sound or preference/difference between 2 components. We share experiences and a well tried vocabulary discussing the same sound events and our common base is live events
Now, if e.g. MaxHeadroom would recommend a speaker cable - I would not bye it. I don't trust any statement from anyone here - especially from some that claims he can hear differences between music files with the same checksum. On the other hand, there are indeed statements from certain technology/science/logic oriented members that may trig my interest and has set me off to mostly failed but stil educational and fun DIY project 🙂 - all due to lack of own ability 🙂
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Now, if e.g. MaxHeadroom would recommend a speaker cable - I would not bye it. I don't trust any statement from anyone here - especially from some that claims he can hear differences between music files with the same checksum. On the other hand, there are indeed statements from certain technology/science/logic oriented members that may trig my interest and has set me off to mostly failed but stil educational and fun DIY project 🙂 - all due to lack of own ability 🙂
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I think it would have been a nice touch if a member that had at least once acquired a star, that this could somehow be indicated - maybe a very small star?
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