What is the Universe expanding into..

Do you think there was anything before the big bang?

  • I don't think there was anything before the Big Bang

    Votes: 56 12.5%
  • I think something existed before the Big Bang

    Votes: 200 44.7%
  • I don't think the big bang happened

    Votes: 54 12.1%
  • I think the universe is part of a mutiverse

    Votes: 201 45.0%

  • Total voters
    447
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Away from where the initial explosion happened, there ought to be a 3D model of it on YouTube somewhere.

1- Was there really an explosion at the start of the universe? There's absolutely no proof for the "big bang". The assumption that "mass and energy" at any moment (big bang) jumped into existence out of nothing is absolutely ridiculous, unscientific and religious in nature. Besides the assumption is also in contradiction with proven physics.
2- 3D-model? That's a very limited way of perceiving this universe (or our part of the multiverse).

:2c:
 
1- Was there really an explosion at the start of the universe? There's absolutely no proof for the "big bang".

The universe is expanding. The rate of expansion is increasing. The farther away things are, the faster they are receding (and that is true no matter where you are standing). So wind back the clock... What do you get? At some point everything (matter, time, space) converges, either to a dimensionless point or something very small.

That still doesn't prove there was an explosion though. What if there was, though? Would there be any artifact of that explosion that we could detect? It's called the cosmic background radiation, and it is there, in every direction you look, and I haven't heard a better explanation for it's existence.
 
The universe is expanding. The rate of expansion is increasing. The farther away things are, the faster they are receding (and that is true no matter where you are standing). So wind back the clock... What do you get? At some point everything (matter, time, space) converges, either to a dimensionless point or something very small.

That still doesn't prove there was an explosion though. What if there was, though? Would there be any artifact of that explosion that we could detect? It's called the cosmic background radiation, and it is there, in every direction you look, and I haven't heard a better explanation for it's existence.

There are explosions all over "space" quite often (supernovae, etc.). If you consider the half-life of some of the more potent radioactive elements, it is possible that "cosmic background" radiation is simply the cumulative radiation of quadrillions (?) of supernovae (etc.) over billions of years.

Thorium-232, for example, has a half-life of 14.05 billion years, which is longer than the (supposed) age of the Universe.
 
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What if there was, though? Would there be any artifact of that explosion that we could detect? It's called the cosmic background radiation, and it is there, in every direction you look, and I haven't heard a better explanation for it's existence.
One of the most intriguing indices, you provided yourself:
The universe is expanding. The rate of expansion is increasing.
The increasing expansion rate indicates that there is likely something else than an explosion of some kind, for gravity would at least slow expansion down to some degree, not accelerate.
 
Is that based on mathematical examination of the data, or just supposition? Because the actual physicists who research this stuff tend to support the big-bang hypothesis as the best fit to the data.

There is much more motivating the big bang theory than empirical data.

The background radiation supports their theory, but it does not prove it.

Regardless of how much radiation data they collect, it is quite plausible that the source of the radiation is something entirely different than what they think it is.
 
"The increasing expansion rate indicates that there is likely something else than an explosion of some kind, for gravity would at least slow expansion down to some degree, not accelerate. "

Dark energy is the reason the universe is rapidly expanding, it makes up 74% of the universe.
 
"The increasing expansion rate indicates that there is likely something else than an explosion of some kind, for gravity would at least slow expansion down to some degree, not accelerate. "

Dark energy is the reason the universe is rapidly expanding, it makes up 74% of the universe.

"Dark energy" and "Dark matter" are other words for "we have a problem and are currently out-off explanations, but this is what might fit the bill"... 🙄
 
Yeah....... most of our understanding of the universe is limited by our knowledge and/or human intelligence.

However, there is one truth that can not be denied....... if something does not exist and never has, it can't possibly have a beginning or end.
 
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There is much more motivating the big bang theory than empirical data.

The background radiation supports their theory, but it does not prove it.

Regardless of how much radiation data they collect, it is quite plausible that the source of the radiation is something entirely different than what they think it is.

The question to which I sought an answer was whether any data support the hypothesis that you put forward, or whether you synthesized it from mere air.
 
SY,

Wouldn't it be more correct to say "physically meaningless on the current model or theory"?

Yes of course.

After all, the notion of individual electrons might actually be meaningful on the older, planetary or billiard ball model, but not on the current model. Similarly, the notion of an edge to the universe might actually have a meaning in an Aristotelian or Ptolemaic model of the universe, but again not in the current one. Of course to the best of our knowledge we should take the current model as truthful to some extent, but that doesn't mean it must serve as the basis for the meaning of all terms or sentences, including a physicalist sense. Doesn't it make better sense to think of meaning as being context dependent and what might be meaningless in one context could be meaningful in another?

Phil

Better? ...Most probably; at least in the context you are stipulating it.
 
The increasing expansion rate indicates that there is likely something else than an explosion of some kind, for gravity would at least slow expansion down to some degree, not accelerate.


Yeah, there's calculations for that.

The universe will either


- Expand forever.

- Slow down, stop, then start falling inwards.

- Slow down and stop forever.


The third I listed I think is called "zero expansion rate" and relies on a very precise total mass in the universe.

The chances of zero expansion happening are something like 1 in a trillion, however the mathematics for it are apparently there, just like a satellite of the earth neither moving away nor hurtling down.


Edit: I predict in a few years we will have super-computers trying to calculate this fate of the universe in "real time". At the moment they can't even 'solve' board games so it'll take a while though. They still lose to humans at Chess, Go, Shogi et cetera.
 
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