What is the Universe expanding into..

[JZatopa]

According to Britannica, the Sefer Yetzirah, or Book of Creation, is the oldest Hebrew text on cosmology.

Sefer Yetzira | Hebrew literature | Britannica

You will appreciate that, because of forum rules, we must steer clear of any religious connotations.

The thread has moved on from asking what the Universe is expanding into, and whether it was created in a Big Bang - it now hosts general discussions on the science related to the exploration and description of the Universe.

However, the answer to the first question is very simple - the Universe is expanding into itself! 😎

Thanks for letting me know, however this creates a kind of paradox. To explore and describe the universe, we must use what is within the universe. One can go as far as to say that it's all relative except for the speed of light and thus the whole of the universe is self referential. As this exploration is done through consciousness, it is also an exploration of consciousness. If a concept, axiom, precept or something similar is within a book, within said universe, and recognized by consciousness, does it not stand to reason that it is valid for the "conversation" due to said book (no matter the book) containing said axiom.

Put another way, if one were to speak in physical objects, pictures and similar ways. Beyond, basic words. How does one then convey that conversation without the physical object or word, within said existence? Religion is a man made construct, yet the experiential laws within works humans have built religions around, do exist, case in point a book like the Kybalon which is really just a collection of consciousness principles. Do we need to find a way to de-religion-ify all these works to be able to use the axioms, and the like, within them to describe the exploration and descriptions of the universe?

I'll use the kybalon as an example as hermetics is considered a spiritual science and not a religion but can accept that this may also be out of bounds, and if so please forgive me. The laws within it - mentality, correspondence, vibration, polarity, gender, rhythm, cause & effect - all describe the universe and fit within some measure of science as well in that they can be identified and measured. Are we open to this conversation in this thread? If so, how do we see the emerging science of consciousness, albeit one that was once considered the precurser to modern science in many ways, as being integrated correctly with the measures of modern science today? And how do we account for so much of understanding quantum reality echoing books of wisdom from long before modern science, as an accounting of the universe. Maybe the universe, due to its relative nature, was always self referential, hence the reason we experience its fractal like nature through synchronicity, evolution and other laws that are self evident.

 

[TNT]

Its nothing wrong with your reasoning. But the forum rules are still there. And I think it is good. There are still a lot of freedom to discuss the topic by using only the SI units. If you feel it is to limiting maybe it is not for you.

//

 

[Bonsai]

The cutting edge of Technology is actually Military stuff:



I have to be careful what I say. 🙄

But in WW1, our splendid Queen Elizabeth Class battleships were engaging the German battleships in the South Atlantic. Guns kept missing. Happily the Germans had run into similar issues. 😀

All down to the Coriolis force. As we NOW know. This was before GPS.

Yes - read about this as well. They had all fine tuned their aiming systems in the NH and got stumped south of the equator! A few folk on both sides thankfully survived as a result!

 

[benb]

The cutting edge of Technology is actually Military stuff:



I have to be careful what I say. 🙄

Fleetwood Mac spilled the beans.
World Turning - YouTube

 

[Bonsai]

Here’ the stuff from Motion Mountain (hereafter ‘MM’)

 

[system7]

I just checked how much the shells were deflected:

"During the naval engagement near the Falkland Islands which occurred early in World War I, the British gunners were surprised to see their accurately aimed salvos falling 100 yards to the left of the German ships. The designers of the sighting mechanisms were well aware of the Coriolis deflection and had carefully taken this into account, but they apparently were under the impression that all sea battles took place near 50 degrees N latitude and never near 50 degrees S latitude.

The British shots, therefore, fell at a distance from the targets equal to twice the Coriolis deflection." (Classical Dynamics of Particles and Systems, Second Edition — by Jerry B. Marion, Academic Press, Inc., 1970, p.346 fn.)

Ball park, I reckon a shell going 15 miles takes about a minute. They usual travel around 1000 mph.

 

[Galu]

During the First World War, the ‘Paris Gun’ fired upon the French capital.

At a distance of 75 miles, the shells took 3 minutes to reach the city.

The distance was so far that the Coriolis efect was substantial enough to affect trajectory calculations.

Paris Gun - Wikipedia

 

[Bonsai]

What’s fascinating about this is the effect was known back in the 1670’s, but it took Cariolis in the 1800’s to describe it mathematically.

Coriolis force - Wikipedia

 

[system7]

I forget where I saw one of these things, maybe the Science Museum. I seem to remember a crowd would gather at midday to see the curator start it up.

Foucault's Pendulum:

Foucault pendulum - Wikipedia

At the North Pole it turns 360 degrees in 24 hours. At the equator nothing happens at all. In Paris it took 31.8 hours to turn 360.

What'''s Up With That: How a Swinging Pendulum Proves the Earth Rotates | WIRED

You can calculate your latitude with one. I suppose you could make a sort of timer out of one. 😎

 

[Bonsai]

Here’s the formula (MM)

 

[system7]

I've already been doing some calculations, Bonsai! 😀

Foucault pendulum - Wikipedia

Turns out 30N and 30S do interesting things to Pendulums. The Earth has to turn twice (720 degrees) to get the pendulum back to start.

Where have we seen that before? Mobius strips:

And Electron Spin with all the +1/2 and -1/2 stuff. Fascinating.

It's such a simple experiment the Ancients could have done it. But it reveals so much. 😎

 

[Disco-Pete]

How do you re-launch it without disturbing it's progress?

 

[Galu]

I saw the original Foucault pendulum (made in 1883) in the Science museum in London 55 years ago! I didn't know much about it then, other than it demonstrated the rotation of the Earth.

The pendulum I saw had to be re-swung every hour, but was replaced in 1988 by one that runs continuously.

Gently raising and lowering the pendulum pivot, using a motor in conjunction with a sensor, keeps the pendulum in motion.

Leon Foucault, who conceived the display, first demonstrated it at the Parisian Patheon in 1851

 

[Galu]

How do you re-launch it without disturbing it's progress?

The original pendulum which I saw was held at the end of its swing by a leather strap with a thread attached to a hook.

Once absolutely motionless, the pendulum was released by burning through the thread with a match.

 

[Disco-Pete]

The original pendulum which I saw was held at the end of its swing by a leather strap with a thread attached to a hook.

Once absolutely motionless, the pendulum was released by burning through the thread with a match.

You answered my question in your prior post, thanks.



So it can't be allowed to stop in the meantime in order to complete a cycle.

 

[Galu]

So it can't be allowed to stop in the meantime in order to complete a cycle.

I'm not sure what you mean by "cycle". If you mean one complete to and fro movement of the bob, then the original pendulum would complete many cycles before stopping.

The amplitude of swing of the original pendulum decreased as Ek/Ep was converted to heat in doing work against friction (at the suspension point) and against air resistance. It was then re-swung every hour.

So a complete cycle of the Earth's rotation would not be accommodated by the original pendulum, if that is what you mean.

The current pendulum never stops because its energy is topped up in a similar way as to how you would top up the energy of a child's swing.

 

[Bonsai]

Fascinating stuff 🙂

 

[Galu]

If I ever return to London, the first place I would head for would be the Science Museum. It was fascinating 55 years ago, and must be truly fascinating now,

Although temporarily closed, we can still get a taste of the experience, courtesy of the Curator Gallery Guides: CURATOR GUIDES TO THE GALLERIES - YouTube

 

[Bonsai]

I went in there with my two kids in 1996. My wife was swotting for her uni exams (BSc Hons Psychology) and wanted us out the house. I drove down at about 7 am from Brackley, Northants, parked the car near a station and we trained it into a London. Fantastic day out with my boys. Did the Natural History Museum as well.

BTW when I was in Asia, I got posted from Taiwan to Shanghai in late 2014. Since I had to get my Chinese visa from my country of citizenship, I was sent back to London with my wife. The company put us up in a nice hotel in Kensington for 5 days while we got the visas (1 hour interview at the Chinese embassy then 4 day wait for authorization). We did the Natural History Museum one morning.

Fantastic memories.

 

[Galu]

The Natural History Museum - natch! 😎

The rest of my visits to London back in the day were to the "Hi-Fi Highway" in Tottenham Court Road!

1970s London | Tottenham Court Road | London | TV Eye | 1978 - YouTube