Hi everyone, can you give me some advice on what DIY Pass Lab design would best drive a set of Tannoy Dual concentric 15" Arden style speakers 92db efficiency in a medium size room. Currently using a 15W valve amp typical music levels and listen to SPL of 95db max at listening position. My preamp has a voltage gain of approximately 2 and I use a phone stage so need an amp with input sensitivity of around 1V for full power.
Cheers Johno
Cheers Johno
pretty much any of FW full frame power (that being 25W) will do
Aleph J, M2, F5 ....
my fave (swiss knife of them all) is M2
which drivers exactly are in your Ardens?
Aleph J, M2, F5 ....
my fave (swiss knife of them all) is M2
which drivers exactly are in your Ardens?
Thanks for the feedback, many choices suggested so can we drill down please.
Drivers are 8ohm, Alnico HPD385 (15" diameter) in good working order.
Enclosures are 320L built by Scott Krix (Krix Loudspeakers in Australia) around 1978.
Agree you do not need many watts particularly in a medium size room.
So, the amp will need an input sensitivity of around 1V to compliment my preamp & phono stage.
Drivers are 8ohm, Alnico HPD385 (15" diameter) in good working order.
Enclosures are 320L built by Scott Krix (Krix Loudspeakers in Australia) around 1978.
Agree you do not need many watts particularly in a medium size room.
So, the amp will need an input sensitivity of around 1V to compliment my preamp & phono stage.
Attachments
Good observation, particularly with a Decca London cartridge but one must work with space and the Nottingham Analogue Dais is very good at isolation.
You say you, "need an amp with input sensitivity of around 1V for full power." You've included that spec twice, so I assume it's important to you.
Can you provide a bit more insight re: why you chose that spec? You've stated the same definition I use (voltage at input to reach full power at output), but .... I admit that don't understand why you want it 'so low' at 1V.
Can you provide a bit more insight re: why you chose that spec? You've stated the same definition I use (voltage at input to reach full power at output), but .... I admit that don't understand why you want it 'so low' at 1V.
For a 1V RMS input to give 25W output (into 8 ohms) then the gain needs to be ~23dB (~14x). If that's the requirement then technically none of the standard FW designs has enough voltage gain:
https://firstwatt.com/prod.html
https://firstwatt.com/prod.html
You say you, "need an amp with input sensitivity of around 1V for full power." You've included that spec twice, so I assume it's important to you.
Correct, I have a phono stage that outputs around 500mV and a low gain line stage with a voltage gain of 2 so it appears none of the FW designs meet my upstream requirements. That's fine thank you for the clarification.
Correct, I have a phono stage that outputs around 500mV and a low gain line stage with a voltage gain of 2 so it appears none of the FW designs meet my upstream requirements. That's fine thank you for the clarification.
Anyway, perhaps I build the JE Labs type 76 preamp which has higher gain.
Valve pre with SS amp sounds attractive to me, cheers.
Valve pre with SS amp sounds attractive to me, cheers.
Thank you for clarifying. I see where you're coming from, but you don't necessarily need the (any) amp to output full power at 1V input though.
You just need 'enough' power at the output with 1V at the input to make you 'happy', correct? I'd think that some FW amps might just do the trick. No sure how exact the sensitivity of your speakers is and how far you sit away, but it'd be 'close enough' for me to still consider that a FW amp might get you to 95dB at your listening position with it "cranked".
However, a higher gain amp would definitely be required to fit your 1V input sensitivity criteria. See the specs Dennis linked, and you can do some math to see if you're willing to give it a go.
You just need 'enough' power at the output with 1V at the input to make you 'happy', correct? I'd think that some FW amps might just do the trick. No sure how exact the sensitivity of your speakers is and how far you sit away, but it'd be 'close enough' for me to still consider that a FW amp might get you to 95dB at your listening position with it "cranked".
However, a higher gain amp would definitely be required to fit your 1V input sensitivity criteria. See the specs Dennis linked, and you can do some math to see if you're willing to give it a go.
Would Sting come?On my Tannoy HPD's 5 watts would have made the neighbors call the police.
I think it would be a good idea to take the advice of people with (vast) practical experience with large speakers and these amps.On my Tannoy HPD's 5 watts would have made the neighbors call the police.
Rather than throw theoretical figures into the air.
Nelson and Zen Mod are speaking from practical experience. 😉
Well you have to take into consideration your personal situation. If you live alone in a Buckingham palace situation, then do whatever you want. If you live in an apartment with walls made of plaster, you have to be more aware of your environment
To put some more context, newer guitar amps come with a setting for 1/4W. Granted, the speakers tend to be 96dB+, but you still have to turn the volume down a lot during hours that people rest
In OP's case, ~7dB gain and ~5W would be enough for 95dB spl. There is a nice calculator that gives you a ballpark
http://www.hometheaterengineering.com/splcalculator.html
To put some more context, newer guitar amps come with a setting for 1/4W. Granted, the speakers tend to be 96dB+, but you still have to turn the volume down a lot during hours that people rest
In OP's case, ~7dB gain and ~5W would be enough for 95dB spl. There is a nice calculator that gives you a ballpark
http://www.hometheaterengineering.com/splcalculator.html
say Aleph J
25W@8R
means 14.14Vrms at output for max power@8R
original gain of Aleph J is 10V/V. which is 20db, meaning that for full power it demands 1.41Vrms at input
scenario - make Aleph J with ultrasimplesuperduperabrakadabra kit set which is soon going to be in Store, as Boyz are saying
in very unlikely case of feeling that Aleph is not getting to enough ooomph to clip properly feeding Ardens, it's super easy to elevate gain slightly. to make situation better
realistically - Arden box is lousy, original xover is lousy ( schematic and values Made by Gods, but beancounters in Factory crippled it in physical realm), DC driver (when mint) is also Made by Gods; verdict - it'll sing as never before, with Aleph J
forgot internet myths about Tannoy synergy with Accuphase and Luxman integrates .... those are Fairytales for poor bstrds not knowing better, not being able to make it better and not being able to find this place
been there, done that, believing in all Synergy BS; though - in Yore, situation was clearer - Myths were spread by people having some commercial agendas, while nowadays - ppl are doing the same just for the sake of gaining some doubtful online credibility - everyone is havin' relieve holes, and opinion
edit: with 1Vrms you have on disposal now, Aleph J will put 10Vrms at output; that's 10V^2/8R=12W5
perfect for start, easy to build up
Changing the gain (if really needed) is a nice idea. In the case of the AJ, going from 20dB to 23dB should have at most very minor change in performance.
All easy to do if you're DIY.
All easy to do if you're DIY.
"make Aleph J with ultrasimplesuperduperabrakadabra kit set which is soon going to be in Store, as Boyz are saying"
Bit cryptic, but if I go Aleph J where/when ?
And is there some form of part notification you can receive from diyAudio ?.
Cheers Johno
Bit cryptic, but if I go Aleph J where/when ?
And is there some form of part notification you can receive from diyAudio ?.
Cheers Johno
there is Aleph J kit in Store, package made few years ago
I felt that too many Boyz are having problems, or simply being confused with some solutions in package, so I decided to make it simpler, exactly to prevent some mistakes Boyz are making with present one
as I'm informed, it'll be soon included in Store
no matching of output parts, simple setting procedure etc.
and it sounds pretty good, which is confirmed - several Boyz around got sample/0 series boards from Jim ( 6L6) and they're happy with outcome
so, 6L6 is a guy to ask about, but don't press him too much - as far as I know, he's lousy paid for job he's doing for Store, while flying wild every day and being paid for that
maybe I dreamed about that, but idea was that JFets (2 matched pairs) are going with pcbs, so all other parts are absolutely not critical to obtain, in nearest Grocery Store
I felt that too many Boyz are having problems, or simply being confused with some solutions in package, so I decided to make it simpler, exactly to prevent some mistakes Boyz are making with present one
as I'm informed, it'll be soon included in Store
no matching of output parts, simple setting procedure etc.
and it sounds pretty good, which is confirmed - several Boyz around got sample/0 series boards from Jim ( 6L6) and they're happy with outcome
so, 6L6 is a guy to ask about, but don't press him too much - as far as I know, he's lousy paid for job he's doing for Store, while flying wild every day and being paid for that
maybe I dreamed about that, but idea was that JFets (2 matched pairs) are going with pcbs, so all other parts are absolutely not critical to obtain, in nearest Grocery Store
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Ok, so you saying there will shortly be a diyAudio grocery shop selling SS parts & boards for AJ amp ?
Cryptic !
Cheers Johno
Cryptic !
Cheers Johno
when you're reading ZMengrish, sometimes helps to just ignore parts you're not understanding
depending of time of day when ZM is writing, maybe there is left enough to have some sense, even if not necessary having exact meaning I had on mind, while typing
sometimes even that is not helping
depending of time of day when ZM is writing, maybe there is left enough to have some sense, even if not necessary having exact meaning I had on mind, while typing
sometimes even that is not helping