Nope, needs a crossover, it's very much a mid driver. In my last passive implementation, 4th order LR acoustic on the bottom, 2nd order on the top at about 4K2- ish, IIRC. I think SY went active with his.
This conversation is far from meaningless. We are discussing driver which we have personally found to be detailed and sharing that with each other. The purpose is to hear anecdotal experience which might bring us to try drivers which we may have never heard of or considered trying on our own. Graphs and measurements are great for comparison between drivers but as we know they do not tell the whole story.
How do we separate the two? Easily, we explain what information we are looking for and trust the ears of the people who have responded.
Thanks very much for this info. With the Dynavox I might be able to get away with just a 1st order at the bottom and thats it. Its supposed to image well, but not huge detail. Maybe I shd stick with that.
PS the most revealing drivers I ever heard were jordan units in the Electrofluidics speakers (mid 90s). The design was extreme.
Yes, pretty similar to you, but active on high pass, passive on low pass. The excursion is limited, so you want the low end to roll off rather sharply to keep the distortion low. In my next implementation (fully active), I'll try for even a faster rolloff for the HP.
I own Yamaha NS1000's, sporting beryllium domes for mid and high.
Over the years I collected some spare midrange and tweeter domes, "just to be sure.....".
IMHO the best up from 500 Hz; electrostatic like transparency with the dynamics of moving coil speakers.
Shortly I will audition a friend's new speakers with a Beyma TPL150 AMT driver, but I don't expect it to sound as coherent as the Yammie does as the important midrange must be split between woofer and tweeter somewhere around 1500 Hz.
Over the years I collected some spare midrange and tweeter domes, "just to be sure.....".
IMHO the best up from 500 Hz; electrostatic like transparency with the dynamics of moving coil speakers.
Shortly I will audition a friend's new speakers with a Beyma TPL150 AMT driver, but I don't expect it to sound as coherent as the Yammie does as the important midrange must be split between woofer and tweeter somewhere around 1500 Hz.
Well actually it's pretty much meaningless--w/o any shred of evidence, it's just theory or hypothesis. Anyone can say whatever they want and it may have little to do with reality. What don't the graphs tell us? How we feel? I'll give you that one. You can trust what others believe, that's up to you. For me actual evidence would be nice or this is just a cable thread.
sorry,
Dan
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Only heard them the once, and wasn't stunned. Still, it was on the US distributors stand at NAB for their after show party, and listening conditions weren't ideal. Nice hostesses though.
Exactly so!
You got to hear just how crappy their source and amps, etc are/were... made my ears hurt (literally). Couldn't believe how BAD their own stuff sounded. Not to mention pathetic bass... but I diverge. Fantastic drivers. Truly, a great example of GIGO in action!
_-_-bear
See? A whole lot in this sort of conversation depends on your experience(s) and your frame of reference.
Having had extensive experience over time with the B&G RD-75 and various implementations and variations of that driver, it's my opinion that it is very good, but (for example) not in the same league as the SA driver (ok, a different bandwidth, but...) and unable to touch my present horn system (which is several increments away from optimized)... but it is still a very very good driver.
So, it's difficult to compare using words. Also, people do hear and perceive sound somewhat differently... which serves to make this sort of discussion difficult.
_-_-bear
I'm going to have to go "commercial" here..
Tweeter: 3 series Magnepan ribbon.
(..I've heard other smaller ribbons that were similar, yet not quite as good.)
Mid and Midbass: Martin Logan CLS panel (..I haven't heard the new version of this design however).
As for more "conventional" drivers:
The Audax PR170ZO is the best mid driver I've ever heard. It does need some serious "break-in" or fatigue to the suspension and glue to sound its best. The result is rather like a controlled/damped electrostat. Unfortunately it's no longer available.. BUT the MO version is and it's still a fantastic driver. Loading for either is critical.
Tweeter: 3 series Magnepan ribbon.
(..I've heard other smaller ribbons that were similar, yet not quite as good.)
Mid and Midbass: Martin Logan CLS panel (..I haven't heard the new version of this design however).
As for more "conventional" drivers:
The Audax PR170ZO is the best mid driver I've ever heard. It does need some serious "break-in" or fatigue to the suspension and glue to sound its best. The result is rather like a controlled/damped electrostat. Unfortunately it's no longer available.. BUT the MO version is and it's still a fantastic driver. Loading for either is critical.
For me actual evidence would be nice or this is just a cable thread.
sorry,
Dan
Evidence is unobtainable for something subjective but I do like your reference to a cable thread. At least we can count on the members to more civilized in this thread, right?
There is some premise to support that first lateral reflection helps "detail" impression, but how does reverberation support this? I have the book, please point out the reference.
Evidence is unobtainable for something subjective but I do like your reference to a cable thread. At least we can count on the members to more civilized in this thread, right?
Well, yes. Unlike wire, there actually are incontrovertible differences between speakers. It's not a matter of faith.
You were discussing narrow dispersion and detail--first lateral reflection are rather obviously attenuated with narrow dispersion. That's my point. I was not talking about reverberation. Good to see you are responding to me again lol. Dr. Toole refers to the 'second look' a couple times in there somewhere. You got the book and I'm sure you've read it--you can give it a second look as well.
Hopefully Cal you are not insinuating I was not being civil--civility is certainly my intent. Rambling on about nothing seems............. well a waste of everyone's time. Sorry of getting to the point is perceived as uncivil. Anecdotal stories are not very useful unless you have boatloads of expendable cash and a lot of time.
trying to save everyone time and money,
Dan
Oh, I should add, there is already evidence, all we have to do is show conformity. Easy peasy
Hopefully Cal you are not insinuating I was not being civil--civility is certainly my intent. Rambling on about nothing seems............. well a waste of everyone's time. Sorry of getting to the point is perceived as uncivil. Anecdotal stories are not very useful unless you have boatloads of expendable cash and a lot of time.
trying to save everyone time and money,
Dan
Oh, I should add, there is already evidence, all we have to do is show conformity. Easy peasy
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Sy, that is a rather large Red Herring to drag in here, across the floor, leaving a bloody trail behind, smelly fish smell, and wet slimy boots...
And, there are differences in wire that are incontrovertible, the issue is not that, but IF it can be heard, or if it correlates to anything audible. Let's put that one in a hermetically sealed can, on a shelf somewhere near the arctic line, in a cabin...
_-_-bear
That's cool but there's something obvious here. No matter how much information you have availabe, Floyde Tool himself could come in here and slap us all silly with theory, your still going to have to take that leap of faith and buy something and then listen to it before any of it provokes a real sensory reaction. So I don't see much difference between that and the guy saying 9 out of 10 women prefer the detail his superwoof2000 midrange is capable of.
The internet isn't always such a serious place and sometimes someone just wants some off the cuff opinions. This is one of those threads.
Back on topic and being thoroughly subjective my votes go to RAAL and Audiotechnology.
thumbs up
It's just not within my expendable income to buy 10 tweeters and mids to compare so this is a great thread for me.
Any recommendations on large woofers?
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