Off topic. Not speaker cabinet or bass loading designs. Isolation cancelling due to suspension is what we are discussing.
Wouldn't you say this is addressing the force that would cause the speaker to rock back and forth in its cradle?
That is something science has shown is pretty much too minimal to have any effect. But floor and air born vibrations do have an effect by vibrating the cabinets.
Let me say it another way please; A heavy cabinet with woofers can not create enough back and forth movement affect the audio signal when placed on pliant suspension like bungees.
This is hypothetical. But say we are speaking of a building on pier and beam construction, with wooden floors. And there is a piece of machinery near enough to rumble the ground, but not hear. Say it could occasionally make a glass in the cupboard vibrate a bit.
THIS is what I am thinking pliant suspension would eliminate the effects of.
Let me say it another way please; A heavy cabinet with woofers can not create enough back and forth movement affect the audio signal when placed on pliant suspension like bungees.
This is hypothetical. But say we are speaking of a building on pier and beam construction, with wooden floors. And there is a piece of machinery near enough to rumble the ground, but not hear. Say it could occasionally make a glass in the cupboard vibrate a bit.
THIS is what I am thinking pliant suspension would eliminate the effects of.
Yes it would. The airborne vibration is a different issue though and you'd need to fix the cupboard.
I disagree about the start of your last post Flaxxer! Could you point to the 'science' who told you that please?
You don't need a hanging system to decouple loudspeakers. As hifijim pointed it is a way to approach the link between your box and whatever makes contact to earth ( by your ceiling or floor doesn't matter)...
The principle are not different from the one in this ( as i see it it decouple on z and x axis and 'twist' vectors force along those axis too: iow only y axis is missing... could be some 'air' based decoupler - like a bike tube under inflated- between the upper plate and your building... sorry loudspeakers!
Animation of seismic protection systems ? mageba pendulum bearing - YouTube
You don't need a hanging system to decouple loudspeakers. As hifijim pointed it is a way to approach the link between your box and whatever makes contact to earth ( by your ceiling or floor doesn't matter)...
The principle are not different from the one in this ( as i see it it decouple on z and x axis and 'twist' vectors force along those axis too: iow only y axis is missing... could be some 'air' based decoupler - like a bike tube under inflated- between the upper plate and your building... sorry loudspeakers!
Animation of seismic protection systems ? mageba pendulum bearing - YouTube
I think you need to define the modes that cause this problem before you can move forward. For example, have you given thought to the reason why spikes can be beneficial?
Along the same lines would 4-6 tennis balls decouple a sub of roughly 150lbs ?
My idea is to put a thick base with indentations (maybe a inch deep?…enough to keep the tennis balls in place) then attach a mirror image base with the same indents to the floor….foregoing the permanence would that work or would tennis balls be too rigid?
Edit…..I’ve seen a test where one tennis ball was squished in a hydraulic press to iirc 160 lbs so maybe one on each corner and one centered for a total of five?
To avoid permanence maybe non skid rubber on the underside of bottom plate?
My idea is to put a thick base with indentations (maybe a inch deep?…enough to keep the tennis balls in place) then attach a mirror image base with the same indents to the floor….foregoing the permanence would that work or would tennis balls be too rigid?
Edit…..I’ve seen a test where one tennis ball was squished in a hydraulic press to iirc 160 lbs so maybe one on each corner and one centered for a total of five?
To avoid permanence maybe non skid rubber on the underside of bottom plate?
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Spikes are only beneficial to prevent the speaker from moving. They do NOTHING to drain away energy. They only transmit all of it to the surface they are on.
I have done this Bob. With all kinds of squishy balls, for all kinds of applications. It works, but only so well. Anything still in the FR will transmit energy. THIS is why a person needs something to take the vibrations to basically zero. This sill require a suspension matched to the exact load to accomplish. Springs or suspension.
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Thanks flaxxer……..in your experience would you consider the balls got you halfway there?
Not sure if hangin things from the ceiling would pass inspection! 😉
Not sure if hangin things from the ceiling would pass inspection! 😉
I did not need a lot of science to figure this out. My accellerometer can measure these vibrations on walls, cabinets, etc. But here is some science.
Barry Barish: Gravitational Waves and the Most Precise Device Ever Built | Lex Fridman Podcast #213 - YouTube
Here is an easy way you can check this ... Download one of many apps which turn your cell phone into a seismograph. Lay the phone on one of your speaker cabinets. Now walk through the room, and watch what happens. Cough real loud and watch what happens. Watch when a neighbor cranks his loud truck next door. ... It appears on there as well. You can easily measure the amount of vibrations these things cause. And when you do this, you find most of these vibrations are greater than the tiny movement of a tweeter's cone! This is not debatable.
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They worked well under equipment. Helped with my CD player and DAC.
However the rebound rate on the balls is way up in the FR ... so not really. A person needs something with adjustable spring rate and rebound. Like a shock absorber. A spring with just the right specs would do this. Effectively "floating" the speakers, with springs which have a close to xero frequency vibration.
I wondered if the same thing could be accomplished with bungees. They do not have to be hung from the ceiling either. 4 "arms" at the edges of the platform, which stands about 6" tall could suspend the bungees to the platform 6" below. It would still rock slightly in any direction. The question becomes, the resonant FR of the loaded bungees.
HTH
They are located around the edge. The bottom panel can be free to move in the middle, just moving a little air. If it were on the floor this could amplify the effect.
There are feet designed for the purpose, usually made of sorbothane or similar, they are very effective.
I am not sure. But a friend and I worked in a hi end audio store in the 90s, and actually tried to make magnetic levitation platforms ... and lost ALL of our hair doing so! Pulled out by the roots. It was going to take smarter ape than we were! 😀
Measure it. You will be surprised how the energy transfers from the floor up equally.
I never said spikes were not better than nothing underneath a speaker. I just said they do not work as purported or advertised. They don't drain energy. Just transfer it both ways.
I have experimented with many of them. Most do nothing audibly in my experience. Sorbothane has it's own drawbacks.
I have seen stands which do however. They are as much as an automobile. They are made for literally "floating" the most sensitive equipment on the planet. Many are computer servo controlled.
The end result is the speaker ends up acting as if it is literally floating.
There is another way to do this ... My very attempts to keep the topic on track, shows I am fishing. Trying to get somewhere.