Back then when I was a little less sensible (if that's true at all
) I used to listen with a pair of Klipshorn copies which I ran active: 300 watts in the bass and 100 watts for mid/high. I sometimes used to listen at SPLs one would call masochistic.In the meantime I listen at much lower volumes.
I am convinced that the perfect sound reproduction system will never be built and I also know that different reproduction technologies all have their typical sonic footprint.
While many people seem to get skin-rash, as soon as they are forced to listen to another sytem than their own or favourite one, I can still APPRECIATE the differences between them.
Depending upon mood and music style each one has it's merits (though the Manger is the most accurate of mine).
My JBL boxes are still in ugly chipboard, but even though I don't use them very often anymore I bought some nice plywood about half a year ago to make nice boxes.
Regards
Charles
I'd like to thank all for the many instructive replies to my query about what front horn to build. It's narrowed down my options, which is good, but opened up whole other areas to research and study. Here is the road I think I will follow:
Look for a pair of Altec 604 or maybe 605's. I think these guys will give me the flavour of hi-efficiency hi SPL systems without going all out financially. (I'm also really curious about the current Altec Lansing 604-8L that replaces the vintage 604, but no one seems to know anything about these, I will endeavour to find out their cost at least).
At the same time continue to learn about horns and drivers etc. with the hope of building something "ultimate" in the not too distant future.
Regards
GeorgeJ
Look for a pair of Altec 604 or maybe 605's. I think these guys will give me the flavour of hi-efficiency hi SPL systems without going all out financially. (I'm also really curious about the current Altec Lansing 604-8L that replaces the vintage 604, but no one seems to know anything about these, I will endeavour to find out their cost at least).
At the same time continue to learn about horns and drivers etc. with the hope of building something "ultimate" in the not too distant future.
Regards
GeorgeJ
Now that you've settled on a perfectly good compromise driver/system that may satisfy long term with enough $$/tweaking, but blows the budget big time, I'm going to suggest what I would have from the beginning had your initially stated goals been a bit more flexible.
The Adire HE12.1 monitor driver is IMO the current ideal entry level 'horn' driver WRT cost/performance ratio, with their HE10.1 the runner-up. If they decide to do a HE15.1 these will probably shift down a notch if other manufacturers don't jump on this particular bandwagon and one-up them. One can only wish.....
A pair only cost a fraction of a single good condition Altec duplex of any flavor, has a wider dynamic range/'slam factor' over a wider BW, better phase alignment between the LF/HF, better mids/HF polar response, and fits in a smaller cab for a given LF output than the Altecs. With its flatter impedance, it's more tube amp friendly. You can tweak them without worrying too much over the cost of having to repair/replace one since a proper re-cone of the Altec costs more, as does their HF diaphragms.
The trade-offs are that you have to tweak them a bit more than the Altecs, their lower mids polar response isn't quite as 'tight' due to being a smaller driver, and to some it won't ever sound quite as 'tight' in the upper portion of the LF's BW due to diaphragm/VC construction.
Still, everyone I've talked to that's made the switch from the mid-to-lower high end status quo are letting them collect dust as they continue to be mesermized by a fairly low distortion/wide dynamic range coincident speaker, and with only a couple of exceptions these haven't been tweaked yet nor are any of them in what I would deem optimum cabs.
Or you can take everything down a notch and start with the HE10.1s which have a strong following also, especially among the currently impecunious WRT disposable income and/or listening room real estate.
GM
The Adire HE12.1 monitor driver is IMO the current ideal entry level 'horn' driver WRT cost/performance ratio, with their HE10.1 the runner-up. If they decide to do a HE15.1 these will probably shift down a notch if other manufacturers don't jump on this particular bandwagon and one-up them. One can only wish.....
A pair only cost a fraction of a single good condition Altec duplex of any flavor, has a wider dynamic range/'slam factor' over a wider BW, better phase alignment between the LF/HF, better mids/HF polar response, and fits in a smaller cab for a given LF output than the Altecs. With its flatter impedance, it's more tube amp friendly. You can tweak them without worrying too much over the cost of having to repair/replace one since a proper re-cone of the Altec costs more, as does their HF diaphragms.
The trade-offs are that you have to tweak them a bit more than the Altecs, their lower mids polar response isn't quite as 'tight' due to being a smaller driver, and to some it won't ever sound quite as 'tight' in the upper portion of the LF's BW due to diaphragm/VC construction.
Still, everyone I've talked to that's made the switch from the mid-to-lower high end status quo are letting them collect dust as they continue to be mesermized by a fairly low distortion/wide dynamic range coincident speaker, and with only a couple of exceptions these haven't been tweaked yet nor are any of them in what I would deem optimum cabs.
Or you can take everything down a notch and start with the HE10.1s which have a strong following also, especially among the currently impecunious WRT disposable income and/or listening room real estate.
GM
GM said:Now that you've settled on a perfectly good compromise driver/system that may satisfy long term with enough $$/tweaking, but blows the budget big time, I'm going to suggest what I would have from the beginning had your initially stated goals been a bit more flexible.
The Adire HE12.1 monitor driver is IMO the current ideal entry level 'horn' driver WRT cost/performance ratio, with their HE10.1 the runner-up. If they decide to do a HE15.1 these will probably shift down a notch if other manufacturers don't jump on this particular bandwagon and one-up them. One can only wish.....
A pair only cost a fraction of a single good condition Altec duplex of any flavor, has a wider dynamic range/'slam factor' over a wider BW, better phase alignment between the LF/HF, better mids/HF polar response, and fits in a smaller cab for a given LF output than the Altecs. With its flatter impedance, it's more tube amp friendly. You can tweak them without worrying too much over the cost of having to repair/replace one since a proper re-cone of the Altec costs more, as does their HF diaphragms.
The trade-offs are that you have to tweak them a bit more than the Altecs, their lower mids polar response isn't quite as 'tight' due to being a smaller driver, and to some it won't ever sound quite as 'tight' in the upper portion of the LF's BW due to diaphragm/VC construction.
Still, everyone I've talked to that's made the switch from the mid-to-lower high end status quo are letting them collect dust as they continue to be mesermized by a fairly low distortion/wide dynamic range coincident speaker, and with only a couple of exceptions these haven't been tweaked yet nor are any of them in what I would deem optimum cabs.
Or you can take everything down a notch and start with the HE10.1s which have a strong following also, especially among the currently impecunious WRT disposable income and/or listening room real estate.
GM
The budget I originally stated was definitely not intractable. What I should have said is something along the lines of "What's out there for a reasonable price, that I can build and that it would give me a good idea of what to expect from high-efficiency front horns and co-ax systems, budget somewhat flexible"
I was not aware of the HE12.1 (I was aware of Adire tough, but I never noticed their co-ax)
In any case, it is inexpensive enough and your opinion well regarded enough and I’m indigent
enough, that I think the HE12.1 might be my first step. I want to see if I’m compatible with compression drivers before I let loose.Can you tell me a little about the tweaks?. (I looked and didn’t find much beyond dust cap removal)
GeorgeJ
I think the Adire co-ax’s would be very good starting point. I’ve heard the 10.1’s on a few occasions and really liked them – not a lot of bass but they worked very well with a 300B SET and had a lot of the soundstaging characteristics I like so much about the Altecs - fantastic speakers for the bucks.
Never heard the 12.1 but imagine it would be even better and might nicely take care of that bass issue without resorting to a sub. According to GM, they are also better than Altecs in just about every conceivable way so these might be the steal of the century. Actually, my next DIY project will be bedroom speakers that are a little more domestically agreeable than giant Altecs and I want SET friendliness so these will probably be my choice as well. I notice you are in Ontario George – maybe we could hook up at some point to see how much better 12.1’s are than Altec 604’s .
Billfort
Never heard the 12.1 but imagine it would be even better and might nicely take care of that bass issue without resorting to a sub. According to GM, they are also better than Altecs in just about every conceivable way so these might be the steal of the century. Actually, my next DIY project will be bedroom speakers that are a little more domestically agreeable than giant Altecs and I want SET friendliness so these will probably be my choice as well. I notice you are in Ontario George – maybe we could hook up at some point to see how much better 12.1’s are than Altec 604’s
.Billfort
Sure George, just PM me. Not sure if you've seen this site before but this is a Canadian retailer for the Adire kits http://www.creativesound.ca/index.html . I'm going to start working on a few cabinet designs in CAD for the Adire co-ax's - my bedroom layout might best suit a scaled down version of the corner cabinets I made for the Altecs. I'll probably try a few designs, but will use the same Baltic birch ply, wood backed veneer, mortise/dado construction I used with the 604 boxes. I'll email you some drawings as I go along.
Billfort
Billfort
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