I’m trying to decide what to build, and am at an impasse. It will be used for listening to music 75% of the time, and HT the other 25%. I am after clarity and good off-axis response rather than high SPL. I’m torn between three MTMs (G-R Research Paradox 3, Adire Kit 281, Eros) and two TM designs ( ProAc 2.5 clone, and Scan-Speak Event .
Is there anyone who has built or listened to the Event or Kit 281TL? I can not find a single post anywhere by someone who has built either one.
If you had to choose between the Event or ProAc clone which way would you go? The ProAc clone tweeter appears to have slightly better off-axis response, but is it a noticeable difference?
I know that G-R Research and Adire have excellent reputations, but are these the best designs for someone who is after clarity rather than bass? (I’ll probably be adding an Adire Rava sub at some point).
If there is another kit/design in the $500 range I should consider please let me know.
Thanks,
SRMC
Is there anyone who has built or listened to the Event or Kit 281TL? I can not find a single post anywhere by someone who has built either one.
If you had to choose between the Event or ProAc clone which way would you go? The ProAc clone tweeter appears to have slightly better off-axis response, but is it a noticeable difference?
I know that G-R Research and Adire have excellent reputations, but are these the best designs for someone who is after clarity rather than bass? (I’ll probably be adding an Adire Rava sub at some point).
If there is another kit/design in the $500 range I should consider please let me know.
Thanks,
SRMC
adire kit
There are tons of people who have built the adire 281's over on hometheatertalk.com. You could ask someone over there. I know at least one pair was a TL. From what I have heard the TL design was not really well thought out, and just put out as an offering for the TL fanatics. I think of the designs they have posted, the ported has best response. This leads me to believe that changing the TL design could improve results drastically. Personally, I would take a little Thor influence and put it into the 281 TL's. I think someone here could offer some good advice on tweaking the design.
Austin
There are tons of people who have built the adire 281's over on hometheatertalk.com. You could ask someone over there. I know at least one pair was a TL. From what I have heard the TL design was not really well thought out, and just put out as an offering for the TL fanatics. I think of the designs they have posted, the ported has best response. This leads me to believe that changing the TL design could improve results drastically. Personally, I would take a little Thor influence and put it into the 281 TL's. I think someone here could offer some good advice on tweaking the design.
Austin
Thanks for the comments on the Kit281TL. If I go that route I'll stick to the ported design.
I've spent a lot of time at t-linespeakers.org and like the benefits of a TL design, but am wary of building something that will need extenstive tweaking. I don't have the knowledge nor budget to do extensive crossover reworking so the ported Kit281 and Paradox 3 are very attractive.
For example, The this Weems based design looks good and uses quality drivers, and this TL design using Dayton drivers is interesting, but I don't know how they compare to the Event or the MTMs I'm considering. I like the Scan-Speak drivers and figure that if the Event didn't work well I could always build a ported cabinet. I guess that is the nature of DIY, but I'd like to eliminate some of the uncertainty.
. . . . and don't get me confused even further by throwing BESL, NorthCreek, or Ellis Audio in the mix . . .
I've spent a lot of time at t-linespeakers.org and like the benefits of a TL design, but am wary of building something that will need extenstive tweaking. I don't have the knowledge nor budget to do extensive crossover reworking so the ported Kit281 and Paradox 3 are very attractive.
For example, The this Weems based design looks good and uses quality drivers, and this TL design using Dayton drivers is interesting, but I don't know how they compare to the Event or the MTMs I'm considering. I like the Scan-Speak drivers and figure that if the Event didn't work well I could always build a ported cabinet. I guess that is the nature of DIY, but I'd like to eliminate some of the uncertainty.
. . . . and don't get me confused even further by throwing BESL, NorthCreek, or Ellis Audio in the mix . . .
BLRS and Premium 33
Navin,
Thanks for your suggestions. I saw the BLRS link on the Shamrock site when I looked at the SE-1 and SE-2, but the BLRS portion of the site is down. All I know about the BLRS design is that it uses an Audax woofer and Morel tweeter.
It is funny that you mention the Reference 33. I like the idea of a 2.5 way, and it uses the same drivers as the VSS Eros (Vifa PL18 and S-S 9500). Unfortunately I have yet to find comments from anyone who has built the Reference 33. I know the drivers are good, but I can only speculate on how well the crossover design works. I'll still take a closer look at it.
Part of my problem is that I'm not opposed to stand mount designs. I'm torn between trying something like the Reference 33 or Event and hoping that I like it, and going with a well regarded stand mount kits like the Ellis Audio 1801 or the North Creek Okara II or Borealis Aurora. I guess that is something only I can ultimately decide.
Thanks again. Perhaps I'll be able to submit the first comments from someone who has built the Reference 33 or the Event.
Navin,
Thanks for your suggestions. I saw the BLRS link on the Shamrock site when I looked at the SE-1 and SE-2, but the BLRS portion of the site is down. All I know about the BLRS design is that it uses an Audax woofer and Morel tweeter.
It is funny that you mention the Reference 33. I like the idea of a 2.5 way, and it uses the same drivers as the VSS Eros (Vifa PL18 and S-S 9500). Unfortunately I have yet to find comments from anyone who has built the Reference 33. I know the drivers are good, but I can only speculate on how well the crossover design works. I'll still take a closer look at it.
Part of my problem is that I'm not opposed to stand mount designs. I'm torn between trying something like the Reference 33 or Event and hoping that I like it, and going with a well regarded stand mount kits like the Ellis Audio 1801 or the North Creek Okara II or Borealis Aurora. I guess that is something only I can ultimately decide.
Thanks again. Perhaps I'll be able to submit the first comments from someone who has built the Reference 33 or the Event.
Never used the P13. heard it is good. but specs as I remember them have one fact that are disturbing. they ahve a high damping surround. (low Qms). I mgiht be wrong. but if this is so approach with caution.
i find this sort of driver measres well but does not have the immediate sound i like.
given the option me thinks that the 9500 is a nice tweeter (bes VFM of the SS range - I have the 95 and 99).
The Seas 18cm woofer is very nice. It is a little limited in Xmax v/s the SS drivers used by North Creek or the Vifa PL drivers. They are faster though. You might find you need a sub to augment the bass of the SEAS 18cm. Just a thought.
wrt Shamrock's BLRS email Mike. He is a gentleman. There are 2 versions MT and MTM. If I had the drivers would expriement with a 2.5 way using the Aerogel 210mm instead of a second 170mm. The 170mm is severly Xmax limited. I had to use a 6db HP at 150hz to make it useable.
last thought... MTM or 2.5 way will require 3db less (1/2 the watts) of similarly speced MT. If you dont need the extra bass the 1801 seems like a very nice design.
hope these mutterings help
i find this sort of driver measres well but does not have the immediate sound i like.
given the option me thinks that the 9500 is a nice tweeter (bes VFM of the SS range - I have the 95 and 99).
The Seas 18cm woofer is very nice. It is a little limited in Xmax v/s the SS drivers used by North Creek or the Vifa PL drivers. They are faster though. You might find you need a sub to augment the bass of the SEAS 18cm. Just a thought.
wrt Shamrock's BLRS email Mike. He is a gentleman. There are 2 versions MT and MTM. If I had the drivers would expriement with a 2.5 way using the Aerogel 210mm instead of a second 170mm. The 170mm is severly Xmax limited. I had to use a 6db HP at 150hz to make it useable.
last thought... MTM or 2.5 way will require 3db less (1/2 the watts) of similarly speced MT. If you dont need the extra bass the 1801 seems like a very nice design.
hope these mutterings help
purpose of 2.5 way
Navin,
Is the purpose of the 2.5 way to cure the baffle step problem or to give better bass and midrange?
I was looking at TM or MTM 2-way designs out of a desire for simplicity, but the Reference 33 seems simple enough. It is beyond my abilities to design one from scratch, but if the Reference 33 design is sound I may give it a try. The PL18 drivers have a reputation for good bass and midrange performance and I'd like to try the SS 9500 tweeter.
OTOH, I still wonder whether this will give better midrange performance than a TM with the Seas W18E or SS 18W/8535 or 8545.
Navin,
Is the purpose of the 2.5 way to cure the baffle step problem or to give better bass and midrange?
I was looking at TM or MTM 2-way designs out of a desire for simplicity, but the Reference 33 seems simple enough. It is beyond my abilities to design one from scratch, but if the Reference 33 design is sound I may give it a try. The PL18 drivers have a reputation for good bass and midrange performance and I'd like to try the SS 9500 tweeter.
OTOH, I still wonder whether this will give better midrange performance than a TM with the Seas W18E or SS 18W/8535 or 8545.
I've built both the Kit281 vented and the Eros (parallel and series xover). For the money, the 281s are a great speaker. They can be run w/o a sub for all but the deepest bass tracks. The only fault I find with them is probably due to the 2.2Khz xover with the AV8 drivers. I think they are working too hard at the upper limits of their useable BW. The tweeter is nothing to write home about, but performs pretty well. All in all, a great sounding kit for the money.
The Eros has the edge in the mid and upper freqs, I think. You will not get the full low end out of them and probably best to use a sub for these. The SS 9500 is a very sweet sounding tweeter, IMO, and probably has more to do with why I like them so much. Of course, they will cost you some extra jingle. I'm still trying to figure out if I like the parallel or the series xover better. The parallel measures flatter, but I'm still undecided.
Pete
The Eros has the edge in the mid and upper freqs, I think. You will not get the full low end out of them and probably best to use a sub for these. The SS 9500 is a very sweet sounding tweeter, IMO, and probably has more to do with why I like them so much. Of course, they will cost you some extra jingle. I'm still trying to figure out if I like the parallel or the series xover better. The parallel measures flatter, but I'm still undecided.
Pete
1. me thinks for a beginer the 33 is an excellent design for it's simplicity and driver choice
2. 2.5 way kills 2 birds (actually 3)
a. extra sensitivity where you need it (below 1000Hz) this also cover the topic of difraction compensation
b. simpler than a passive difraction compensation circuit and sounds better too.
c. 2 woofers in the lower registers hence more Vd in the 30-100Hz range when one needs every extra cc of Vd they can get and also since you use 2 woofers the Bl/Mms ratio is high enough with most 6"ers to give fast bass.
you wrote...
OTOH, I still wonder whether this will give better midrange performance than a TM with the Seas W18E or SS 18W/8535 or 8545.
If I was using 1 woofer I'd use the 8545 or 8546. If I had a lower woofer I'd use the 18e. The 18e has a better mids the SS more SPL capability. remember a system has to be balanced. it cant be only fast and have no SPL capabilty or vice versa. you need a bit of both.
2. 2.5 way kills 2 birds (actually 3)
a. extra sensitivity where you need it (below 1000Hz) this also cover the topic of difraction compensation
b. simpler than a passive difraction compensation circuit and sounds better too.
c. 2 woofers in the lower registers hence more Vd in the 30-100Hz range when one needs every extra cc of Vd they can get and also since you use 2 woofers the Bl/Mms ratio is high enough with most 6"ers to give fast bass.
you wrote...
OTOH, I still wonder whether this will give better midrange performance than a TM with the Seas W18E or SS 18W/8535 or 8545.
If I was using 1 woofer I'd use the 8545 or 8546. If I had a lower woofer I'd use the 18e. The 18e has a better mids the SS more SPL capability. remember a system has to be balanced. it cant be only fast and have no SPL capabilty or vice versa. you need a bit of both.
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