Mar-Ken 10.2 based on the MA Alpair 10.2 can be an option. Some pics of the P10 Mini-Onkens here:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/planet-10-hifi/214897-minionken-fonken-gallery-pictures-only.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/planet-10-hifi/214897-minionken-fonken-gallery-pictures-only.html
How large is this garage? How loud do these need to get - will they be playing over power tools/machinery? How much bass do you need? What will be powering them?
I'd consider a pro-driver for this job. Eminence have 10" and 12" models, Beyma has a few and other manufacturers if you look aorund. I'd favor a coaxial driver for this application, but a fullrange could be cheaper and pretty simple.
IG
I'd consider a pro-driver for this job. Eminence have 10" and 12" models, Beyma has a few and other manufacturers if you look aorund. I'd favor a coaxial driver for this application, but a fullrange could be cheaper and pretty simple.
IG
Space is at a premium, so he wants midsize bookshelf. But, you are right in asking as the unanswered question is how big is midsize for the OP?
Blargh - that'll teach me to read the OP better next time.
OTOH, how did I miss this, 3 short sentences... FF165WK could be pretty decent in the sub-1cu.f category as well. Likely needs a super-tweeter as 225 does though.
IG
Blargh - that'll teach me to read the OP better next time.
FF165WK could be pretty decent in the sub-1cu.f category as well. Likely needs a super-tweeter as 225 does though.
IG
yes, not to belabor the points, exactly what size range does OP mean by "medium", and will they need to overcome a high noise floor ?
if so, then IG's suggestion of small pro drivers is worth considering, if not the FF165WK is great choice, but <1ft^3 might be a bit small for optimum performance, and based on my exposure, tweeter might not be required.
check out this thread.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/219008-thank-you-melo-theory.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/219008-thank-you-melo-theory.html
"Small" can mean a lot of things to different people.
Most pro drivers will indeed need more volume to get some bass out of them, so may be out of the question.FF165WK looks like it might be OK without a helper tweeter IMO, this will really be down to personal preferences. I can enjoy FF225WK without to a certain extent, but not on every musical genre.
Something'd be odd if it didn't.
Though I only have the two extremes of this series to compare, perhaps unfairly so, I gotta say FF85KW's treble is quite good. I plan to try FF125WK (middle member) in the coming months and might get a better idea of the "progression".IG
All questions of finesse & sound quality aside, there's no doubt that any decent 8 or 10" pro coaxial driver could "out-muscle" a wimpy 5" Fullranger, but if I'm reading the NA distributor's price list correctly, a pair of 8XC20 and recommended XOs works out to $680 plus shipping and taxes - well beyond the original proposed budget (which isn't clear if includes material for enclosures etc)
Typically being quite sensitive, most pro drivers will have to bend pretty hard before one of the other two parameters of Hoffman's law.
B&C 8CX21 is under 200$ per unit and could work out to the following:
28L tuned to 65Hz, not much below 60Hz
21L tuned to 70Hz, not much below 65Hz
14L tuned to 80Hz, not much below 75Hz
These figures are not unlike boom-boxes which can be quite enjoyable in the shop/garage without need for real deep bass. It can also get stupid-loud.
If extreme loudness or ruggedness is not needed, FF225WK in 28L (1cu.f) tuned anywhere between 45Hz and 60Hz, depending on the type of low-end required, should give a decent account of itself.
IG
B&C 8CX21 is under 200$ per unit and could work out to the following:
28L tuned to 65Hz, not much below 60Hz
21L tuned to 70Hz, not much below 65Hz
14L tuned to 80Hz, not much below 75Hz
These figures are not unlike boom-boxes which can be quite enjoyable in the shop/garage without need for real deep bass. It can also get stupid-loud.
If extreme loudness or ruggedness is not needed, FF225WK in 28L (1cu.f) tuned anywhere between 45Hz and 60Hz, depending on the type of low-end required, should give a decent account of itself.
IG
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Well, FWIW, the first return I found on google search for that driver model showed a price of $240 each, but of course discounts may abound - but do they still not require outboard XOs? - which in the case of my previous post lists at approx $180 a pair .
There's no question as to the performance capabilities of this class of driver, but the practicality for this particular application could be open to conversation - well indeed, we are.
Well, FWIW, the first return I found on google search for that driver model showed a price of $240 each, but of course discounts may abound - but do they still not require outboard XOs? - which in the case of my previous post lists at approx $180 a pair .
There's no question as to the performance capabilities of this class of driver, but the practicality for this particular application could be open to conversation - well indeed, we are.
Huh - it does indeed have a wide price range depending where you look. I based that on the Q-Component Canadian price of 164$ - not a sales price even! One might be able to get the Xovers and still be within budget.
Anyway, this is turning into a conversation on someone else's potential projects to which we barely have any specifications. We really should know more.
IG
Huh - it does indeed have a wide price range depending where you look. I based that on the Q-Component Canadian price of 164$ - not a sales price even! One might be able to get the Xovers and still be within budget.
Anyway, this is turning into a conversation on someone else's potential projects to which we barely have any specifications. We really should know more.
IG
now why should that stop any of us from pontificating, imaginating and master.....
Thanks for the input fellas. The garage is a standard 1 car, 10x20', give or take. It doesn't have to be louder than machines. Most of the time i have the radio on, but every now and again i like to listen to some music. Right now I'm running an MC2205 with a home made tube preamp using a computer for a source. The Alpair 12p were on my short list. Good sensitivity and the small base reflex box on the Madisound site is a good size for me. I think the finished product could be done for $400. Maybe just a bit North, but not much. Not sure how much base you get with that small box tho. Any idea??
Hadn't given any thought to pro stuff, but thanks for the suggestion. Worth looking into. I don't really require thumping base and i don't hear much above about 13k so thought a nice full range driver might work for me. Thanks for the suggestions. Regards, J.D.
Hadn't given any thought to pro stuff, but thanks for the suggestion. Worth looking into. I don't really require thumping base and i don't hear much above about 13k so thought a nice full range driver might work for me. Thanks for the suggestions. Regards, J.D.
jdsackett,
I built the small BR box for the Alpair 12P and found the bass to be decent for a box of that size (low frequencies in the 40s with room gain). I have no experience with Alp 10.2 but it will go deeper in similar sized box. The Alpair 12P is a very nice sounding driver with lovely mid-range. The efficiency is pretty high too at 92 dB.
I built the small BR box for the Alpair 12P and found the bass to be decent for a box of that size (low frequencies in the 40s with room gain). I have no experience with Alp 10.2 but it will go deeper in similar sized box. The Alpair 12P is a very nice sounding driver with lovely mid-range. The efficiency is pretty high too at 92 dB.
Looks like home audio drivers will be more suitable for you then. MA certainly is a good option, so is Fostex. Playing around with the 6.5" FF165WK in Hornresp, I came up with the following tappered line:
It simulates decently, with somewhat stronger low-end than a reflex of comparable size, with strong output to 50Hz. It's just a rough draft and does not account for material thickness. Net Vb is under 1ft^3. I have little experience designing and building such enclosures, so take this with a grain of salt, I'm just throwing the idea out there for kicks. I think it should perform at least OK.
For a simple bass reflex, this driver seems like it'd work in volumes ranging from 0.5ft^3 to 1ft^3.
IG
Thanks Zman! Appreciate the help. Always nice to hear from someone that has experience. Leaning very heavily toward the 12p. Almost everything I have read has been positive. If i need more bass I can always plant a sub somewhere under one of my machines. Leads me to a couple more questions.
As mentioned, floor space is at a very high premium. I could buy or build some mounting brackets, install them as close to the ceiling as possible and tilt them downward. Wouldn't be difficult to do and could make them to fit where i have room. Something much easier would be to hang them from the rafters in some rope nets. (The old sailor in me dies hard, lol). Would hanging the boxes in the air change the acoustics any??
One more while I'm at it. The drawings show the port firing to the rear. By necessity they will be 4 to six inches from a wall. Is that okay or can i move the port to the front? Thanks for any advice.
Ig81....Appreciate the box suggestion, but is a little tall for the available space. Am grateful for your suggestions.
Thanks again gentlemen. Do appreciate the input. Am a total fng at speaker building and need some help, thank you very much. Bass reflex may not be the most exotic boxes in the world, but do play well with my very limited wood working skills. Regards, J.D.
As mentioned, floor space is at a very high premium. I could buy or build some mounting brackets, install them as close to the ceiling as possible and tilt them downward. Wouldn't be difficult to do and could make them to fit where i have room. Something much easier would be to hang them from the rafters in some rope nets. (The old sailor in me dies hard, lol). Would hanging the boxes in the air change the acoustics any??
One more while I'm at it. The drawings show the port firing to the rear. By necessity they will be 4 to six inches from a wall. Is that okay or can i move the port to the front? Thanks for any advice.
Ig81....Appreciate the box suggestion, but is a little tall for the available space. Am grateful for your suggestions.
Thanks again gentlemen. Do appreciate the input. Am a total fng at speaker building and need some help, thank you very much. Bass reflex may not be the most exotic boxes in the world, but do play well with my very limited wood working skills. Regards, J.D.
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