....And symphony orchestra cannot be handled by 4" or even 6" IME...
In believable way it can't but with right driver and little bump at 80-110hz in two way system it certainly can be pleasant in small room-Something like Audio Note AX-2 boxes.
Small high-tech drivers and monstrous amps was a trend in 90"s .
I think the discussion here took slightly wrong turn. It should be an exchange of opinions of what to particular listener (you) sounds tiresome in systems .Not clashing with someone likes and dislikes. The priorities are different and tastes are all over the map. I fancy myself that I have evolved from so called "fast bass" and aim to get natural room filling bass of symphonic orchestra. Than I put a favorite bands from the hairy past and it sounds like shite . No punch , no definition , pathetic ...I figured I need a second system for this (also for cigars , joints , beer drinking , going trough the stash of old magazines full of hair ...😉 etc. etc
In believable way it can't but with right driver and little bump at 80-110hz in two way system it certainly can be pleasant in small room-Something like Audio Note AX-2 boxes.
Small high-tech drivers and monstrous amps was a trend in 90"s .
I think the discussion here took slightly wrong turn. It should be an exchange of opinions of what to particular listener (you) sounds tiresome in systems .Not clashing with someone likes and dislikes. The priorities are different and tastes are all over the map. I fancy myself that I have evolved from so called "fast bass" and aim to get natural room filling bass of symphonic orchestra. Than I put a favorite bands from the hairy past and it sounds like shite . No punch , no definition , pathetic ...I figured I need a second system for this (also for cigars , joints , beer drinking , going trough the stash of old magazines full of hair ...😉 etc. etc
At the risk of causing more fatigue,,, I beleive in your personal sttings you have the ability to "Hide" yourself from indicating you are on line 😀
Am I on line?
Am I on line?
BTW I've listened to bucket loads of speakers(part of me job) and the ones that do it for me are the ones with at least 95 dB+ ( with good specs and can recreate what a live Scottish pipe band sound like at your local market) all the rest are just " speakers "
I think there's also things that people change, acclimate to, or become sensitized to. When I first heard a little 1.5 way with a titanium dome (WAY back when) I thought it was pretty great. I hadn't gotten used to the problems with titanium dome tweeters and thus it didn't bother me. A great big polar swell above a couple kHz, audible breakup.....
Now I'd run screaming from the room with that.
Earlier someone mentioned that the more you have to listen "through" the system to get the musical impression, the more fatiguing it is. I find excessive cabinet diffraction falls in this category.
Now I'd run screaming from the room with that.
Earlier someone mentioned that the more you have to listen "through" the system to get the musical impression, the more fatiguing it is. I find excessive cabinet diffraction falls in this category.
Oh, understood- this one just characterized that common audio-band breakup, and the system design was just a "fullrange+helper tweeter".
Peerless HDS was a much better match, when the kid poked one in. She hasn't damaged a hifi anything since, that was when she was two. I think it was her sister who took out the open baffle 8", which was floor height with no grille. The sister also poked out the dustcap of a JBL 2206h, which now has a replacement cap, but the glue line isn't the pretty factory glue line, around the dustcap, anymore.
Last edited:
I agree completely. It can take quite awhile to acclimate to a new speaker and un-acclimate to your old or standard one. Valid judgments simply cannot be made quickly. I remember being at a show and someone came in and listened for maybe 15 seconds and left complaining about the "bad sound". Maybe to them it was and maybe it was just that all the other speakers were so bad that the good ones stood out (but not in a good way). In any case I thought that a quick judgment like that was absurd (but all too typical at shows, which is why I don't do them.) I know for a fact that the speakers measure well and I am sure that these listeners would just claim the standard "well measurements don't tell the story". They actually do in the long run, but not in the short run.
And I agree that if one has to strain to "listen through" the audio system then it will be fatiguing, but this could be a myriad of things, not just one thing.
Well, there are often systems that show their poor behavior pretty darned quickly. I'd not expect yours to be one of them, but unfortunately never got to hear them. I saw you with the Summas at THE show in Vegas way back when, but you were speaking with someone, I wasn't familiar with them, and had a lot of show to see, so didn't get a listen.
Why the anecdote? Because in show conditions, there are other factors besides sound driving people's interest/perception. Maybe it was lunchtime? I almost never make a negative determination of sound quality from a show- having been on both sides of exhibition, I know how sometimes business arrangements can trump having a good sound, or you just can't get the room working right, etc.
I had one reviewer for HiFi+ come around to a room that I and a couple guys from Audio Asylum had thrown together, and while my name was on it, and I paid most of the cost, it was a group effort, and we were using a very wild diy multiway with a variety of other associated gear. He didn't bother to listen, but chose to bash the system based upon the complexity of the setup (failing to note that we were using the venue to show off a variety of people's personal projects, and that it wasn't a commercial endeavor.). He couldn't be bothered to listen, to ask why it's so wild, or any such, he just left with a negative enough impression to bash my company in his magazine.
🤐
It was a TON of fun anyway, which was the whole point. 😎
Reality check.
1.A well designed amp with enough power is as audibly excellent as another well designed amp with enough power.
2.Less driver movement means less distortion.
3.There are certain types of speakers that couple the drivers to the room with more efficiently.
4.Linear speakers with wide bandwidth trump linear speakers with restricted bandwidth.
5.. What causes fatigue? Speaker+room distortions of FR and harmonic deviation at the level you wish to listen at, if that is over a moderate levels in large rooms, you need efficient speakers or the drivers will move too much. Yes I'm stating at some point efficiency is going to be what you need to achieve linearity.
1.A well designed amp with enough power is as audibly excellent as another well designed amp with enough power.
2.Less driver movement means less distortion.
3.There are certain types of speakers that couple the drivers to the room with more efficiently.
4.Linear speakers with wide bandwidth trump linear speakers with restricted bandwidth.
5.. What causes fatigue? Speaker+room distortions of FR and harmonic deviation at the level you wish to listen at, if that is over a moderate levels in large rooms, you need efficient speakers or the drivers will move too much. Yes I'm stating at some point efficiency is going to be what you need to achieve linearity.
Last edited:
"well designed" - a pretty open-ended phrase as indicated by the following. I had a friend a while back who was glad he dumped his Crown 150's (a well-designed amplifier) for a Hafler DH220 (a well-designed amplifier). He felt the audible excellence differed between the two.
Last edited:
Badman
I have been to "The Show", but none of my speakers ever have. I only showed twice. Once in Tulsa and once in Denver.
I don't know why the anecdote - I just like telling stories I guess.
Here is another one. I got very involved in marketing of the early car audio systems. That's where my disdain for listening and expert judgments came from. Any integrity in that business is quickly stomped out. There is nothing valid that comes from any of it. I saw reviewers bought, completely change their minds from one day to the next, etc. The one guy who I had the greatest respect for was Julian Hirsch. When asked what he thought of the sound he would simply reply "I don't know, I only do measurements." He wouldn't even get involved in the fray.
I have been to "The Show", but none of my speakers ever have. I only showed twice. Once in Tulsa and once in Denver.
I don't know why the anecdote - I just like telling stories I guess.
Here is another one. I got very involved in marketing of the early car audio systems. That's where my disdain for listening and expert judgments came from. Any integrity in that business is quickly stomped out. There is nothing valid that comes from any of it. I saw reviewers bought, completely change their minds from one day to the next, etc. The one guy who I had the greatest respect for was Julian Hirsch. When asked what he thought of the sound he would simply reply "I don't know, I only do measurements." He wouldn't even get involved in the fray.
Funny- I was fairly certain it was you + Summas, - there were some big 2 ways that sure looked like summas in my mind's eye, on short little stands.