Hello,
sorry for making one of these threads but I really need some help.
I'm really interested in making a rig (Nothing huge, four 18" subs, Four mid-tops and a couple of tweeters) but I'm not sure what bin(s) to make.
I figured to start from the bottom. 1850 FH is a design I was seriously considering. Originally I was thinking about Scoops but there seems to be mixed opinions about them. Also W-Bins were on my mind but I read a lot that they are obsolete.
I'm planning for the system to be playing from House, to Hardstyle, to Jump up and more... Any recommendations on what bins to build?
(More bins can be built, but I just need it to save as much space as possible.)
sorry for making one of these threads but I really need some help.
I'm really interested in making a rig (Nothing huge, four 18" subs, Four mid-tops and a couple of tweeters) but I'm not sure what bin(s) to make.
I figured to start from the bottom. 1850 FH is a design I was seriously considering. Originally I was thinking about Scoops but there seems to be mixed opinions about them. Also W-Bins were on my mind but I read a lot that they are obsolete.
I'm planning for the system to be playing from House, to Hardstyle, to Jump up and more... Any recommendations on what bins to build?
(More bins can be built, but I just need it to save as much space as possible.)
There are mixed opinions on everything, not just scoops, this is the internet.
W-bins are not obsolete, it's just a fold layout. There are all kinds of ways to fold a horn.
The 1850 doesn't go very low. It probably won't do stuff with low notes very well at all.
You need to start by making a list of goals in order of importance. What frequency range do you want? (What kind of music do you play?) How loud does it need to be? What environment will it be playing in? How big can it be? (How big can each box be and how big can the entire system be? How much money do you have?
W-bins are not obsolete, it's just a fold layout. There are all kinds of ways to fold a horn.
The 1850 doesn't go very low. It probably won't do stuff with low notes very well at all.
You need to start by making a list of goals in order of importance. What frequency range do you want? (What kind of music do you play?) How loud does it need to be? What environment will it be playing in? How big can it be? (How big can each box be and how big can the entire system be? How much money do you have?
the 1850 would probably be pretty great for house and hardstyle. It'll start to fall down with DnB/dubstep though.
It's really hard to tell for sure because each genre of music has a wide range of differences. Some house has low notes and not all dubstep has low notes. Even popular radio music has some pretty low notes these days, well below what an 1850 can do. Personally I analyze all my favorite tunes with the lowest notes and find out exactly how low I need to go for a given design. Depends how low the notes are and how many of them you can afford to sacrifice.
I'd like it to be a minimum if 35hz, but not sure what up to. Outdoors so fairly loud. Size is roughly about 4 18" scoops wide... sorry I don't have actually precise information. I'd spend up to £2K give or take a couple hundred
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Well the 1850 won't do anywhere near 35 hz so it's not for you. Speakerplans.com
Four scoops wide? How many scoops high and deep? How many inches equals 1 scoop?
This isn't much into to go on. Seriously, there are still hundreds of designs that match these requirements, you need to narrow it down a bit more.
Four scoops wide? How many scoops high and deep? How many inches equals 1 scoop?
This isn't much into to go on. Seriously, there are still hundreds of designs that match these requirements, you need to narrow it down a bit more.
The Othorn is a good design that will easily do 35-100 Hz at over 130 dB and will go higher (probably up to 200 Hz). However, the optimal drivers are fairly expensive B&C 21SW152's. It's a fairly compact design at approximately 900mm x 900mm x 600mm. 4 of them should do very well outdoors. Do a search here.
Well here are the plans to the four scoops I was going to mmake. So four of these side by side. Height wise, I'd like to keep it anywhere under 7ft.
How much would optimal drivers for the Othorn be? Would it be good for playing most genres of Electronic Music? I think I'll mainly be playing Psytrance/Hardstyle/Hard trance/Jump Up.
How much would optimal drivers for the Othorn be? Would it be good for playing most genres of Electronic Music? I think I'll mainly be playing Psytrance/Hardstyle/Hard trance/Jump Up.
Where are the plans?
Othorn uses the B&C 21SW152-4 which is about $750 here but you would probably get it from a closer source to avoid shipping. B&C 21SW152-4 21" Neodymium Subwoofer 4 Ohm | 294-689
Othorn - Data-Bass
Othorn will be fine for most music. It might miss a few of the very lowest notes but it won't miss much.
Id doubt the othorn would be missing much at all.... But at 4 ohms, and and about 98db sensitivity the amp rack will be gloriosly heavy. OP really needs to decide where the makority of his content will lie. 1850 might only be a 45 hz bin, but it is about a 103 sb sensitive one...
There is no sense building a 30hz box if you are only using that extension 1/20 tracks, as you'll be schlepping double the boxes (and amps) to match the output o a higher tuned system on 19/20 tracks.
Also consider ARts keystone and xoc1s th18 design. Slightly higher tuning, slightly cheaper drivers, higher sensitivity.
There is no sense building a 30hz box if you are only using that extension 1/20 tracks, as you'll be schlepping double the boxes (and amps) to match the output o a higher tuned system on 19/20 tracks.
Also consider ARts keystone and xoc1s th18 design. Slightly higher tuning, slightly cheaper drivers, higher sensitivity.
And that's where clearly defined goals come in. I don't like to miss any notes ever. It would be worth it to me to get down to 27 hz. There is "music" that gets even lower than that, but not the type of stuff that's likely to get played on a PA system.
I understand completly.
Without the confines of packspace/setupspace/power availability/budget, I would suggest all PA subwoofers have flat response to 27hz as well.
Giving the outlined 2k GBP, outdoor music reproduction (of unknown crowd size, I'll assume at least 100 to 200), I still stick by my recomendation of 4 TH18 or Keystones (as that budget likely limits him to a max of 3 othorns givin the driver price). Especially givin his music choice.
Without the confines of packspace/setupspace/power availability/budget, I would suggest all PA subwoofers have flat response to 27hz as well.
Giving the outlined 2k GBP, outdoor music reproduction (of unknown crowd size, I'll assume at least 100 to 200), I still stick by my recomendation of 4 TH18 or Keystones (as that budget likely limits him to a max of 3 othorns givin the driver price). Especially givin his music choice.
Sorry, for some reason I can't copy and paste the link. But its the 18" scoop on Speakerplans.
I'm really sorry I know this is annoying for everyone, but if I can get exact and direct questions I will answer them.
I'm really sorry I know this is annoying for everyone, but if I can get exact and direct questions I will answer them.
It's not annoying at all.
Can you download Audacity and analyze your music to see how low it goes? Or alternatively can you borrow a system with a known tuning that you can listen to and see if it goes low enough for your needs? Another alternative is to use regular speakers with a really steep eq or dsp to cut out the bottom end and see if 45 hz will be low enough for you. This will let you set a goal for how low the system needs to go.
The next thing you can do is measure your car or van or whatever you use to transport your system and get exact dimensions of how large the speakers can be. And you can give a preference for shape and weight if you like.
We know you have 2000 pounds to spend, but is that for everything including fit and finish or is that for drivers alone?
How low can your main speakers play? That will let us know how high the subs need to go.
Ideally how big will this system be when it's all done? How many subs? Because some designs don't stack as well as others.
What kind of audience size and square footage do you need to service?
Do you have any deals on local drivers that may affect your decision?
All you need to do is clearly define these goals and anything else you can think of as clearly as possible. There's a lot of designs out there. It's really easy to list a bunch of stuff we like but it might not fit your needs.
Can you download Audacity and analyze your music to see how low it goes? Or alternatively can you borrow a system with a known tuning that you can listen to and see if it goes low enough for your needs? Another alternative is to use regular speakers with a really steep eq or dsp to cut out the bottom end and see if 45 hz will be low enough for you. This will let you set a goal for how low the system needs to go.
The next thing you can do is measure your car or van or whatever you use to transport your system and get exact dimensions of how large the speakers can be. And you can give a preference for shape and weight if you like.
We know you have 2000 pounds to spend, but is that for everything including fit and finish or is that for drivers alone?
How low can your main speakers play? That will let us know how high the subs need to go.
Ideally how big will this system be when it's all done? How many subs? Because some designs don't stack as well as others.
What kind of audience size and square footage do you need to service?
Do you have any deals on local drivers that may affect your decision?
All you need to do is clearly define these goals and anything else you can think of as clearly as possible. There's a lot of designs out there. It's really easy to list a bunch of stuff we like but it might not fit your needs.
I do A-Level Music Tech so using Audacity would be a great idea. I'll post back when I have results.
Transport is just a lot of friends cars... I know this sounds like a joke and I'm sorry about that... I'm not really fussed about weight, but I'd like the shape to be as compact as possible.
£2000 for fit and finish.
I haven't sorted out any other speakers. I thought I'd start with the subs.
I was thinking Four Subs and Mid tops and a couple tweeters.
Nothing massive. I don't really ever see myself throwing parties where people will be more than 40m away from the stack.
I've not really found any drivers as I don't really know what design I'm doing yet.
Transport is just a lot of friends cars... I know this sounds like a joke and I'm sorry about that... I'm not really fussed about weight, but I'd like the shape to be as compact as possible.
£2000 for fit and finish.
I haven't sorted out any other speakers. I thought I'd start with the subs.
I was thinking Four Subs and Mid tops and a couple tweeters.
Nothing massive. I don't really ever see myself throwing parties where people will be more than 40m away from the stack.
I've not really found any drivers as I don't really know what design I'm doing yet.
In that case you REALLY have to pay attention to the dimensions and work backwards to see what you can easily fit in (and remove from!) the trunks of those vehicles.
For example, "scoops" are basically out unless one of your friends has a van or a pickup truck.
A bunch of things have been recommended. I have no objections to any of them.
But do the 186 match your goals? (Have you analyzed your music yet?) Looks to me like the 186 can't do anything below 60 hz.
Have you done a simulation to see what's going to happen with phase and summed output of two vastly different kinds of subs playing the same bandwidth? Or are you using the 186 as midbass and the scoop as sub? That makes the system vastly more complicated than it needs to be.
A bit of research now will save a lot of future headaches. I haven't made any recommendations because you still haven't stated how low your subs need to play. Without that info I'm not going to recommend anything that can't do 27 hz. And if "compact as possible" is really a determining factor you should probably looking at ported boxes, not any scoops, tapped horns or front loaded horns.
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Dont worry about transport please, if need be i will just hire a van.
Lowest Frequency i found was 32Hz.
How do i go about doing this simulation?
Lowest Frequency i found was 32Hz.
How do i go about doing this simulation?
Depends what you want to simulate. I don't know if you want to use the scoops and 186 in the same bandwidth or as a 2 way sub system.
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