How would you like to simply be "gifted" with the design files for an inexpensive equivalent of the Paradigm Premier ?
I don't think there is anything not to like about receiving such gifts. But is there one like that with the drivers I can source in.
You seem to talk very expertly about a wide range of disciplines you know little about, while surrounded by people who do.
Google will not get your speakers built expertly.
Google will not get your speakers built expertly.
Without a high-quality center channel I don't see how the left and right speakers really make much difference.
The majority of the audio in a movie is dialog from the actors. That's where it is worth spending the extra effort and money on quality reproduction. Get it right and you can really enjoy the movies without any strain to understand the dialog. Can even possible eliminate the need for turning on subtitles.
The left and right fronts are mainly providing background music and some off to the side special effects. And occasionally dialog when the actors happen to move away from the center of the screen. Not really that important when compared to the center channel.
Aha you guys missed the part where I said that The LR speakers are the start and if I succeed with them I will work on a matching C. You tell me how meaningful it is to start working on C and then work on LR. I would like to start with LR and then move on to C.
I have heard to lot many speakers 2-way and 3-way setups to know what I am talking about. Am new to DIY Audio doesn't mean I have no experience of how Audio works or what to expect and what to look for. I have come across huge variety of HT and speaker setups.
As you have such a preference for 3-way speakers over 2-way's, you are not looking for better speakers, but larger speakers. The "size matters" thingy I suppose.
If you look (and listen!) in the same price class, the 2-ways will usually be better in every aspect you mention, except low(est) frequency response. As you need a subwoofer for HT anyway, the 2-ways, just like the 3-ways, are crossed over at 80 Hz. (look THX) Which means they do not reproduce below this mark.
In a typical 3-way, the x-over from bass to mid is much higher than 80 Hz, typical like 200-600Hz. Which results in an unnecessary cross over in a vital frequency range. You still have not realized that a 3-way speaker in a HT setup is in fact a 4-way system.
If you look (and listen!) in the same price class, the 2-ways will usually be better in every aspect you mention, except low(est) frequency response. As you need a subwoofer for HT anyway, the 2-ways, just like the 3-ways, are crossed over at 80 Hz. (look THX) Which means they do not reproduce below this mark.
In a typical 3-way, the x-over from bass to mid is much higher than 80 Hz, typical like 200-600Hz. Which results in an unnecessary cross over in a vital frequency range. You still have not realized that a 3-way speaker in a HT setup is in fact a 4-way system.
Okay get me INR2,30,000 or less worth 2-way speaker which can get me equally good sound stage like when you hear the bat traveling towards you in the dark knight rises or imaging like in the battle scene of infinity war on wakanda. And with equally good dispersion for off axis viewing. Please list one 2-way speaker that does a better job at all that than Paradigm Premier series. Yes that includes the Center performance. Which is very important for Movies. I have not found one yet. If you do let me know.
not sure whether they are better than the paradigm and whether the drivers are available for you, but they are higly regarded 2-ways:
https://heissmann-acoustics.de/en/bausatz-cinetor-monacor-sp6-100pro-dt-300-wg-300/
or (with upgraded drivers):
https://heissmann-acoustics.de/en/cinetor-evo/
edit: specially suited for home cinema and corresponding higher listening levels.
https://heissmann-acoustics.de/en/bausatz-cinetor-monacor-sp6-100pro-dt-300-wg-300/
or (with upgraded drivers):
https://heissmann-acoustics.de/en/cinetor-evo/
edit: specially suited for home cinema and corresponding higher listening levels.
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The treasure is at the end of the tunnel, the tunnel of reading, thinking, questioning, understanding, learning, trying, improving, realisation. You're welcome to come and get it. 🤣
Yeah for surround system one don't need or want wide dispersion because the extra channels are supposed to provide the illusion instead of room early reflections which would just blur things. Anything with bigger waveguide would equal/beat that Paradigm which has hardly any waveguide on the tweeter and thus quite a wide dispersion (by visual inspection and imaginating the sound output of that speaker, didn't find any measurements or never heard it).
Movie theaters have speakers with horns /waveguides for multiple reasons, controlled directivity to project sound where the listeners are and not to walls to improve intelligibility, this also gives extra SPL capability = dynamics for big space but not a bad thing for small space either. Possibly as constant directivity as possible for good big sweetspot = equal sound to all listeners.
If anyone sells you system that has wide dispersion its just marketing, less intelligibility than with narrower dispersion system. This is just my reasoning, but I'm quite confident on this one. Do not make a system without waveguide, and the bigger the better because bigger one controls directivity lower in frequency and improves intelligibility the bigger it is. Its not silly to put 15" + ~15" waveguide two way as mains and center and why not all the surrounds as well. Not because they can damage hearing but because of directivity. If its too big a system, make it 12" or 10" or 8" or 6" 😀 the bigger the better.
Yes, it does.
You will find out soon enough, by the looks, since you started this thread supposedly asking for opinions and help, but your responses to said help are almost universally 'thanks but no thanks, I know better. This is shaping up to be a rather expensive, yet doomed experiment.
If you think that I have not listened to opinions on this thread or the valuable suggestions given to me then you are wrong.
But if you say that I have no idea of what to expect or what speakers sound like. Then you are very wrong.
This all makes perfect sense.
Put 3-5 wide dispersion speakers in a room; you get a wash.
^other option is to use extensive room treatment to tame "the wash" but thats just counter productive, sound power is wasted by splaying it all over just to be dampened down. It just eats the SPL capability and increases total cost. This holds true to stereo setups as well. Still, acoustic treatment is good at places where the dispersion control is not that effective like on a ceiling and floor for example, or to cut down room reverberation time, what ever is the application, reasons might vary.
Home theaters are usually more or less dedicated places and can have some acoustic treatment, which might make any speakers work fine but still. One can get away without any extra acoustic treatment on a domestic living room with normal furniture cutting out the reverberation time, just by having narrower directivity on the speakers while enjoying increased SPL capability = more realistic sound with less distortion and compression for the same system size.
Home theaters are usually more or less dedicated places and can have some acoustic treatment, which might make any speakers work fine but still. One can get away without any extra acoustic treatment on a domestic living room with normal furniture cutting out the reverberation time, just by having narrower directivity on the speakers while enjoying increased SPL capability = more realistic sound with less distortion and compression for the same system size.
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You maybe listening, but I think InspectorGadget is trying to tell you that your methods and thinking have not been improving accordingly, in spite of all the replies in the thread. In other words, the knowledge in this forum doesn't seem to influence you that well.
A good speaker is one that that measures well, not the one that sounds good, try Bose speakers as a classic example. However, if you're looking for a shortcut that disregards measurements altogether, then any driver combination would work for your room and situation.
don't be so hard on the thread opener. 🙂
it's clear that he is asking for help because he is kind of lost.
once he leaves the forum and turns on the buzz saw he might slowly start to understand what we all keep repeating.
^Thats the only way to learn, make some prototypes wonder what works and what doesn't, basically learning from mistakes. No way around, better get started doing mistakes today and every day to learn fast 🙂 Making finished product from get go is just more costly but essentially the same success rate, it takes at least few to get good results. Prototyping is faster and cheaper so always should make prototypes and there is possibility to listen side by side to really listen if there was an improvement. Its good to have some commercial reference speaker as well to compare against.
How do you know what is (often daft) opinion and what is fact? How do you know which poster is informed and which is uninformed (as is usual on web forums this thread contains both good advice and bad advice)? Without possessing the relevant knowledge of the subject yourself you have no option but to look to guidance from those that possess it if you want your first DIY attempt to be a reasonable one. You cannot take advice from all because it will be in conflict. You will have to pick one or a small number of consistent sources that you trust and follow them while, hopefully, testing and checking what you can. Without knowledge it is going to be very difficult to get close to what you want on the first attempt and you would be foolish to assume otherwise. This is part of the fun and the learning process for those DIYing for a hobby but not for those wanting to save money with little interest in knowing about how speakers work.
You have given us your views on what sounds good and bad to you earlier in the thread. To the modest extent I could make sense of it due to the audiophile terminology and my best guesses at what that terminology might mean in reality you are seeking something that differs from conventional high fidelity (i.e. not what you would find in a good studio or lab). That is fine and you are not alone in wanting to do this. Unfortunately, without being able to define the sound you seek in precise terms that can be mapped to a speaker's radiation pattern it is not going to be possible to address the engineering side. Much of the better advice here is assuming you want high fidelity which I suspect is not the case although I am far from sure.