So they demand more complicated filters than domes and cones? - I guess that qualifies as a drawback that will limit the use of them.
Well, that analysis says exactly nothing about comparison of compression driver vs other driver types. Sure, more deformation all other things being equal would be more distortion. The "all other things being equal" necessary part of the discussion is absent.
and compression driver + horn make funny peaks in he Z plot, more difficult for crossover.
And there are usually peaks (square or circle I think can be the worst) in freq response.
So you need to make a trap.
So you need a trap or 2 for horn standing waves (across mouth, maybe throat to mouth), trap for peak past 10khz (usually), and a difficult changing Z line, sound fun ?
There have been a comment on 10:1 compression ratios on drivers as sounding hard.
A friend said a community vhf100 (4:1) sounded smoother and relaxed compared to most, but most need a supertweet with it (or 5khz and up anyway).
And there are usually peaks (square or circle I think can be the worst) in freq response.
So you need to make a trap.
So you need a trap or 2 for horn standing waves (across mouth, maybe throat to mouth), trap for peak past 10khz (usually), and a difficult changing Z line, sound fun ?
There have been a comment on 10:1 compression ratios on drivers as sounding hard.
A friend said a community vhf100 (4:1) sounded smoother and relaxed compared to most, but most need a supertweet with it (or 5khz and up anyway).
What’s is your favorite sounding speaker? Which do you prefer the sound of, compression driver or dome? Do you go to audio shows and listen to different speakers? I love going to audio shows and listening to different speakers. My favorite sounding speakers have used compression drivers.
Compression drivers are harder to get to sound good than dome tweeters, and horn technology is harder to implement than front loading, but if you know what you are doing, the payoff is there.
Horns take up space, which raises the degree of difficulty/practicality for compression drivers.
Compression drivers are harder to get to sound good than dome tweeters, and horn technology is harder to implement than front loading, but if you know what you are doing, the payoff is there.
Horns take up space, which raises the degree of difficulty/practicality for compression drivers.
This in a nutshell is what tripped me up, CD like voltage source drive and will interact with the driving source impedance generally worsening measured performance. Horn loading isn't consistent with frequency.
And you need to be able to measure and fine tune.
I've been running a 3 way horn based [Onken bass] system for a dozen years. Now all direct drive with dedicated SE triode amps for each driver, LR4 electronic crossovers, and DSP based EQ and room correction. I will never voluntarily go back to direct radiators.
Measure everything and ignore the manufacturer's guidelines for most everything except power handling and LF cutoff where mechanical damage can occur.
In theory my horns (JBL 2380A with 2440 drivers) should work reasonably well from 500Hz - 8kHz but measurements revealed in practice they really don't which is why I am crossing at 700Hz and 6kHz where they actually work a great deal better. Highs are handled by Fostex T-825 crossed at 6kHz.
In my narrow, low ceilinged listening room the tightly controlled dispersion in the upper mids and highs really improves imaging but requires careful set up to assure adequate coverage at the listening position.
The system is complex and I have been criticized for the complexity, but it's reliable and when working properly it's pretty good. Great dynamics, imaging and detail - something I have not heard matched by direct radiators at shows and friends homes where I can hear such things.
Given my obsession with dynamics there isn't really another path for me. And it goes loud in an effortless fashion that I hear only in other good horn systems.
But it's not easy and I am still on the journey. While not a horn newbie, I'd not rank myself as particularly knowledgeable either.
When is a speaker not a hi fi speaker ask the audiofools
When can a dome tweeter blow away a compression driver ask the audiofools
Compression drivers are the dogs nuts period
Playing away without breaking a sweat is so sweeeeeeeeet bugger gotta turn it down didn’t realise how loud it was it’s so clean
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Not necessarily. The filters need to be done right. Some of the highest rated commercial horn systems use simple filters. Edgar Horns, Avantgarde, Cessaro ect.. - that understand the horns are bandpass devices and treat them as so. Normally with first order electrical filters. 😛
Me ?
Favorite speaker (right now) is the morel solstice kit, assuming i can live with max volumes slightly louder than tv.
Solstice MLTL Reference Tower Speaker Kit
Otherwise my fav is my jbl 4722 clone using active crossover and eq 750hz using eminence magnum 15lf and jbl 2435hpl on a jbl 2384 horn, but that is big.
I'm getting older, i just don't crank it anymore.
I've played with jbl 2407 and 2408 on the round mcm thread on horn (2khz active to silver flute). Same horn used by zaph and a few (horn loading dome stuff). I've had ev hp640 and spent much time with ev hr90 and dh7a. Other jbl include (as 2222) 2380a i think with dual 2206 under then actively crossed at 1200hz. I also spent time with klipsch rb75.
I'm happy with what i have except for 4% of the time watching movies such as blade runner or Prometheus. I've been waffling on a 12" 2 way such as (now gone) diysoundgroup fusion, or htm 12, or even jbl stuff such as sr4722, sr4722a, and even newer stuff using the pt waveguides such as am4212.
Overall i am a huge horn fan. And compression drivers. I think horn loaded domes or compression drivers mounted on smooth waveguides (wraped with felt around mouth) could be the best.
Favorite speaker (right now) is the morel solstice kit, assuming i can live with max volumes slightly louder than tv.
Solstice MLTL Reference Tower Speaker Kit
Otherwise my fav is my jbl 4722 clone using active crossover and eq 750hz using eminence magnum 15lf and jbl 2435hpl on a jbl 2384 horn, but that is big.
I'm getting older, i just don't crank it anymore.
I've played with jbl 2407 and 2408 on the round mcm thread on horn (2khz active to silver flute). Same horn used by zaph and a few (horn loading dome stuff). I've had ev hp640 and spent much time with ev hr90 and dh7a. Other jbl include (as 2222) 2380a i think with dual 2206 under then actively crossed at 1200hz. I also spent time with klipsch rb75.
I'm happy with what i have except for 4% of the time watching movies such as blade runner or Prometheus. I've been waffling on a 12" 2 way such as (now gone) diysoundgroup fusion, or htm 12, or even jbl stuff such as sr4722, sr4722a, and even newer stuff using the pt waveguides such as am4212.
Overall i am a huge horn fan. And compression drivers. I think horn loaded domes or compression drivers mounted on smooth waveguides (wraped with felt around mouth) could be the best.
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Saw a post by bateman (I'm paraphrasing) "a crappy compression on a good horn sounds better than a great one on a crappy horn".
Of course I'm assuming you have it eq'd fairly flat so you don't get the dreaded "horn glare".
Of course I'm assuming you have it eq'd fairly flat so you don't get the dreaded "horn glare".
Optimal
performance may be approached by the addition of an acoustic lens to a horn & compression driver assembly designed for that purpose. With the advent of 3-D printing technology, I am surprised that the old BNL/JBL designs have not been revisited. WHG
performance may be approached by the addition of an acoustic lens to a horn & compression driver assembly designed for that purpose. With the advent of 3-D printing technology, I am surprised that the old BNL/JBL designs have not been revisited. WHG
But the same reasoning can be used to argue in the opposite direction.
A direct-radiating dynamic driver (i.e. conventional) requires higher excursion to achieve the same SPL. That higher excursion results in higher non-linearity (i.e. distortion) due to factors such as non-linearity from the spider and surround and change of magnetic force due to the voice coil moving out of the magnetic gap. Horn-loaded compression drivers are relatively free of these issues because of the lower excursion required to produce the same SPL.
Now, if this is a simple A > B, then no one (or everyone) would use horn-loaded compression drivers (HLCD). But at very high SPL levels, think sound reinforcement for a large venue, HLCD usually has the edge (lower distortion). Countless tube amplifier aficionados are depending on the higher efficiency of HLCD to match the lower power output of their amps, too.
I had the JBL 2391/2420 and 2392/2440 Acoustic lens and drivers, they were ok but not great compared to more modern horn designs. The 2392 got replaced with 2380A which was a major improvement in clarity and distortion. Same 2440 driver in both cases.
The 2390 is better but very expensive on the vintage market.
http://www.jblpro.com/pub/obsolete/Acoustic_Lens_Family1.pdf
My feeling is that they are an anachronistic dead end. I loved them for a while, but ultimately their lack of detail, significant distortion and coloration made their allure fade for me. JMTCW..
In my experience, horn speaker users playback music louder than dome users in general. No one play horn speakers at AudioNote UK demo level.
Modern JBL CD + waveguides are way better than those old JBL in terms of distortion and coloration, but they do not really sound like a conventional horn speakers anymore. I have 2450Sl + waveguide, and I have love and hate relationship with them.🙂
I went from scanspeak revelators to beyma cp380's and would never go back 😀
The worst thing about compression drivers is they are large, heavy, often expensive and the horns they are attached to make decent C to C spacing difficult to achieve for your crossovers. (my next project will be synergy style horns)
The worst thing about compression drivers is they are large, heavy, often expensive and the horns they are attached to make decent C to C spacing difficult to achieve for your crossovers. (my next project will be synergy style horns)
It's very interesting doing a distortion comparison between a top shelf tweeter like the Satori TW29 and a top shelf compression driver like the BMS 4552ND. Distortion plots for both these drivers can be found online. Check the level of the tests. The tweeter can't touch the compression driver for low distortion.
My experience tells me a well implemented high quality compression driver sounds extremely good in a domestic environment. I've lived with BMS and B&C compression drivers in my home systems for around 20 years.
My experience tells me a well implemented high quality compression driver sounds extremely good in a domestic environment. I've lived with BMS and B&C compression drivers in my home systems for around 20 years.
Because we can! 😀
Perhaps we crave live dynamics and dome tweeters just can't get us there.
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